What do long iron hitters do so differently?

[27x10.5]

I've played with a couple blow your mind type of iron hitters recently and I really don't get it. Not that I'm looking to crush irons ridiculous distances, but it helps to hold one less in your hand when you're pretty far away from the green. Me and these guys are similar ages and build...I've noticed they are taking huge divots, and neither really swinging hard at all. Just murdering the ball. One guy carried a 4 iron 240 on a flat par 3 to pin high, I hit 3 wood there, sometimes 5 wood. They both seem to have a really low finish through the shot before the club comes up after impact. The other guy swung a 9 from 170 to a very elevated green, I needed a 5 iron for the shot but I came up short and landed on the hill because I hit it thin. If I was hitting a 7 even I would have a much better shot at flushing it. I'd say I'm an average hitter, with standard lofted clubs I hit an 8 155, 4 195, 3 wood 250 max. These guys aren't light years better handicap wise, me at 11 and them at 7 and 10.

[rafal]

My friend takes 2 less irons for any given distance but it often costs him. He can shoot PW 110 on one hole, then send it over the green 130+ on another. It's kinda cool until it isn't.

[clewallen]

Ya im a fairly long iron hitter, and i just gave credit to playing sports all my life like football, track, and baseball..all these sports come from core strength and i could be WAY!!! off but i think it has to do with your distances..I dont do anything crazy, nice controlled slow backswing and then just uncork from the top through the ball.

9: 165ish
7: 200ish
5: 220ish

[gboldman23]

[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1343609695' post='5374926']
Ya im a fairly long iron hitter, and i just gave credit to playing sports all my life like football, track, and baseball..all these sports come from core strength and i could be WAY!!! off but i think it has to do with your distances..I dont do anything crazy, nice controlled slow backswing and then just uncork from the top through the ball.

9: 165ish
7: 200ish
5: 220ish
[/quote]

Ah, looks like this is going to turn into another "I hit my 7 iron 2xx yards" thread. I have a few buddies that use a club or two less than me for every shot - mainly because they swing faster (and probably a little more efficiently).

Effective swings look pretty effortless for the most part, which is probably why it seems like they aren't 'swinging hard.'

[CourtJester]

Wrist, forearm, core strength.

Most of your speed comes from maintaining the angle created between your left arm and the clubhead. The greater the angle coming into impact, the more the clubhead will snap through during the release.


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mqGYlh1jjg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mqGYlh1jjg[/media]

Notice around the end of the 13 second mark, Jamie's hands have returned to where they started at address, that is when his release begins. At that point in time the clubhead is at a 90 degree angle to his left arm. That means when he releases that clubhead whips through with incredible speed.

The thing is that you have to be able to physically maintain the angle you create for it to be effective.




In reality, just work on your short game more because not everyone has the physical capabilities to hit the ball miles.
As they say, short and straight is better than long and crooked

[PjBrown]

[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1343601079' post='5374270']
I've played with a couple blow your mind type of iron hitters recently and I really don't get it. Not that I'm looking to crush irons ridiculous distances, but it helps to hold one less in your hand when you're pretty far away from the green. Me and these guys are similar ages and build...I've noticed they are taking huge divots, and neither really swinging hard at all. Just murdering the ball. One guy carried a 4 iron 240 on a flat par 3 to pin high, I hit 3 wood there, sometimes 5 wood. They both seem to have a really low finish through the shot before the club comes up after impact. The other guy swung a 9 from 170 to a very elevated green, I needed a 5 iron for the shot but I came up short and landed on the hill because I hit it thin. If I was hitting a 7 even I would have a much better shot at flushing it. I'd say I'm an average hitter, with standard lofted clubs I hit an 8 155, 4 195, 3 wood 250 max. These guys aren't light years better handicap wise, me at 11 and them at 7 and 10.
[/quote]

Sounds like the guys you are talking about are compressing the ball with their irons better than you are. That's the reason why they are taking big divots because they hit down whereas when you hit your 5 iron thin you're def not hitting down on ball and a big reason why you're probably not getting the same distance and not making as good contact as your boys.

One thing I recently started doing with my irons that has me hitting down w irons and flushing way more shots is when I normally am looking down at the golf ball I look at the back of the ball. I started looking an inch or two ahead of the ball or even just keeping my focus on the front of the ball and it def has helped my compression with my iron shots. Try it out I'm by no means an expert I play an 8.4HC right now down from an 11 about a month ago. Best of luck.

[MonteScheinblum]

It's simple. They are swinging too damn hard on those shots.

No one on tour hits te ball that far....I was the longest hitter in the world and didn't hit it that far

The response is always, "I am not hitting it that hard."

....but I hae played many many rounds with guys who I was out driving by 20-30 yards and on par 3's they were hitting less club than me.

They didn't feel they were swinging too hard, but they were.

Steep angles of attack by pulling the handle really hard, getting the upper body in front of the ball...and massively delofting the club.

That doesn't produce distance control or trajectory control.

[clewallen]

[quote name='gboldman23' timestamp='1343610351' post='5374978']
Ah, looks like this is going to turn into another "I hit my 7 iron 2xx yards" thread. I have a few buddies that use a club or two less than me for every shot - mainly because they swing faster (and probably a little more efficiently).

Effective swings look pretty effortless for the most part, which is probably why it seems like they aren't 'swinging hard.'
[/quote]

and not tooting my horn..cause i hit the ball faily decent...i would not mind losing yardage and being more consistent, golf isnt about the distance from the club to where it lands....its about the distance from where it lands to the hole..

[gspjeb]

wow, those are crazy distances your friends are hitting if they are consistent

[golfnmudd]

I play a lot with a guy who can crush it as well. He is a college pitcher and if we are on a par 3 where I hit a 7 iron(say 165 yards), he will be hitting a pw. His drives are also about 40 yards ahead of me on average (I carry it about 275).

He creates more speed than me, but I think most of his distance comes for the HUGE push/draw that he always plays. But, he also spends about 1 month per year fighting the s***ks.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='golfnmudd ' timestamp='1343613953' post='5375302']
But, he also spends about 1 month per year fighting the s***ks.
[/quote]

Like I said, pulling the handle way too hard.

I can hit a 7-iron 210, but 185 is about the mx I hit it becaue I scare the hozel when I hit it 210...which is most often a 4-iron for me.

Plus, if i try to hit 7-iron 210, it's possible I might get a jumper and hit it onto the next tee.

[24vince]

I gotta agree with Monte here, I play with same 2-3 guys every Monday for last few years and with driver off Tee and contact being equal I hit it 20yds past them but.... I use to let it bother me when they grabbed PW when I was thinking smooth 8 I thought I was doing something wrong with my irons so I'd grab wedge and wack away....Learned quickly it was stupid, they still pick wedge and pull it off 2 of 10 times, I'm smoothing that 8iron 7 of 10 and they wonder why I keep beating them....I've stopped looking at what they are hitting....

Not saying you cant improve your contact (I know I can) but just dont get so tied up in distance alone....Play your game

You also said your clubs were standard loft what about theirs???? I was demoing a few new irons this spring and was hitting 7iron like my 5 iron then checked lofts to learn the 7iron was my 5iron...HA

[JBOMB808]

Any club that's released properly and squarely are going to be long balls. Look at Freddy Couples and of course Sadlowski ^^^. Another reason could also be because they're de-lofting it big time. Turning a 9 into a 7, or a 7 into a 5, so on. I used to have a wicked strong grip and always wondered why my wedge never got as much elevation as some other players.

[Petter Player]

I had new clubs fitted and got more distance due to reduced spin rates through the set.

So, hitting it long is a matter of initial velocity of the ball and relative to the spin rate. Now I'm adjusting my tendency to hit hard to more smoother way, which is not easy.

Slower clubhead speed is really hard to accomplish, when your body works on certain tempo and speed. The hard part is to maintain the acceleration of the clubhead through impact, when you swing more slowly.

I don't get the idea of hitting it too long with a given club. Rors may shoot his 5-iron 230 yds stiff, so, why shouldn't I shoot mine 200? If I feel easy and relaxed that's about the normal distance, but adding spin on the ball by cutting it or moving the ball forward in your stance, will reduce the distance.

I had over 7000 rpm on my 6-i before the club-fit. Now it is about six thousand. The 200 yds 5-i was with the stiff DG-shafts, by the way. So I think my clubhead speed and path produce more spinn, that would be necessary. It's a sort of a staight fade, but I have no idea how I pull those shots.

@24vince,
That's quite common, or used to be at least, that demo-clubs stamped shorter than they wore. However modern GI-clubs often have stronger lofts to help people to get more distance.

[ocat1979]

Golf is a game of accuracy, not distance. Controlling trajectory is the key to golf, I can hit my 9 iron 145 yards, but if I had a 145 yard shot on the course I would probably hit an 8 or 7 iron so I can control the flight and hit a more precise shot. Remember the aim of golf is to get the ball in the hole in the lowest amount of shots you can, the scorecard doesn't care if you can hit a 7 iron 200 yards.

[mooseman76]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1343610687' post='5375010']
It's simple. They are swinging too damn hard on those shots.

No one on tour hits te ball that far....I was the longest hitter in the world and didn't hit it that far

The response is always, "I am not hitting it that hard."

....but I hae played many many rounds with guys who I was out driving by 20-30 yards and on par 3's they were hitting less club than me.

They didn't feel they were swinging too hard, but they were.

Steep angles of attack by pulling the handle really hard, getting the upper body in front of the ball...and massively delofting the club.

That doesn't produce distance control or trajectory control.
[/quote]

Any tips or drills to help alleviate this. I hadn't thought too much about it, but I'm playing two clubs longer this year (hitting 9 where I used to hit 7), but my GIR is way down. I'm not really sure what I'm doing, but this is kind of ringing a bell. Just looking for something to do in the backyard to help develop a smoother more accurate swing.

[Swisstrader98]

Never understood the obsession about hitting longer irons. If you're more accurate than your buddies with a 9 or 8 iron than they are with a PW, then who cares. If you took numbers off irons, no one would also care.

In the end, it's MAINLY about compression. Hit DOWN on the ball, the ball goes farther. And yes, lag, increasing swing speed and a bunch of other things will increase distance but the easiest and quickest way to hit longer and actually straighter irons is to hit down and compress the ball.

[ocat1979]

Next time you are at the range, pick a target around 100 to 120 yards, now start with your wedges and work right through all your irons hitting them all 100 to 120 yards. Once you have this down, try some different distances, learn to do this consistently and you have instantly quadrupled the amount of clubs in your bag. Never rely on one club to hit one certain distance

[Gbyeball]

My 23 year old son hits 2 - 3 less clubs than I do on iron shots. It is not unusual on a par 3 for him to hit PW and me a 8 or 7 iron. Funny thing is he is only 10 - 15 yards longer at best with the driver. I can hit my irons farther but then accuracy goes out the window. I hit way more greens than he does and beat him by 10 - 15 shots most days. Like most young guys he goes at everything 110% and doesn't realize it.

As another said it is not how far that matters it is how close. That is why they are called approach shots.

[TGrube]

The op asked how they do it not which is better..All the short pokers claim their precisely crafted 147 yd seven iron is the smart way to golf..The long guys boast of 200 yd 7 irons..When it comes down to it the long guy is swinging faster plain an simple..
Me I am a short poker..I like to say i old man it around the course..i shoot my scores an take their money. It does not mean I am not envious of their lenght.I had that lenght yrs ago with wooden clubs an pittsburg persimmons..But that was a long time ago..
The beauty of it is i get to stiff it with my longer iron prior to them going..Adds to the pressure..i get "you gotta to be kidding me" all the time.

[bmellisen]

[quote name='TGrube' timestamp='1343652082' post='5376778']
The op asked how they do it not which is better..All the short pokers claim their precisely crafted 147 yd seven iron is the smart way to golf..The long guys boast of 200 yd 7 irons..When it comes down to it the long guy is swinging faster plain an simple..
Me I am a short poker..I like to say i old man it around the course..i shoot my scores an take their money. It does not mean I am not envious of their lenght.I had that lenght yrs ago with wooden clubs an pittsburg persimmons..But that was a long time ago..
The beauty of it is i get to stiff it with my longer iron prior to them going..Adds to the pressure..i get "you gotta to be kidding me" all the time.
[/quote]

This. I play with a guy every weekend. Same handicap as me. I am hitting 9i, he is probebly hitting 5i. ThEy end up in the same place. He wants to hit it longer, i want to hit it straighter. He lives with having to hit hybrids into some greens, i live with hitting wedge out of the rough into greens sometimes.

[isaacbm]

 

I have to agree with Monty on this one too. In the 15 years I played mini tour golf on and off, I`ve never once seen a great wedge player hit wedge more than 125-130 yards. When Vijay was at the top, he used to hit his 9 iron from 130 even though he was carrying his driver 290.

 

Smoother arms swing allows a player to control spin and trajectory and that means consistent distance control. I can carry wedge 160 but that`s my stock 7 iron distance.

 

You want to know how to hit it farther with an iron.... Big shoulder turn big wrist **** swing as hard as possible and hold the angle through the ball.

 

The only time you should ever do that is to hold a green downwind over a bunker or to hit a short iron really high over a tree and still make it to the green.

[TGrube]

I am lucky to only hit hybrids I got a seven wood an a 4 wood that get ton of work also.I know excactly how far they fly with a draw or cut swing.you ply 7000 yds an hit your driver 240-250 it's what ya get.Sometimes not even into the wind I cannot get home.i get up an down.You learn to play the game like this you have no choice..

Like someone mentioned.You wann get straighter get more proficient with your irons..Walk em out an back from 100 yds practice hitting your 7 or 8 iron to the 100 then 110 then 120 an so on.I do a drill where I hit my driver 150 yds with a nice smooth full swing an walk that out..Great for tempo..

[Dire Wolf]

Yes, the inevitable "why are you focusing on distance, accuracy is the way to go" response to a "why/how" question. It's like all those threads on other boards where someone has a PC problem and asks for help, and people chime in with "get a Mac!" That's funny.

The simple fact about golf is that the more loft a club has, the more backspin it produces VS sidespin. This is one reason it's easier to bend a longer club compared to a shorter one with more loft. Similarly, the ball tends to start in the direction of the clubface in general, and most people find it easier to square the face of a short iron vs a long iron.

So there is a distinct advantage to hitting a shorter club into a green than there is a longer one. This is why "bomb and gouge" has worked so well on the pro tour. It's not that those guys aren't great long iron players, it's just that they're more accurate with shorter clubs on approach shots, so they have shorter putts and hit more greens, even from the rough (groove rule debate aside).

Therefore it's NOT unreasonable for any golfer to want to increase his distance up to the point that his physical abilities will allow. You have to realize what your limitations are, but if you're a pretty healthy person of average or even athletic build, you have to wonder what you're doing and not doing that is robbing you of distance you could normally be getting.

Tommy Armour told a story in one of his books about a large, athletic fellow who couldn't hit his driver worth a damn. A little girl was on the practice tee and she was striping it past him! The athlete decided then and there to quit the game. Armour calmed him down and took a look at his swing, and noticed that he wasn't using any hitting action at all with his hands and arms, particularly the right hand, iirc. After a few swings, the guy was pounding the ball.

Should that guy have settled for whatever distance he was getting, content to be outdriven by little girls while never hitting the ball distances he SHOULD have been able to achieve? Not in my opinion.

But too many people chase distance with technology. Up to a point (graphite shaft, larger titanium clubheads that max COI, GI clubs with juiced lofts and perimeter weighting, ball improvements) you can only get so much LEGAL help from the technology. The rest has to come from the golfer.

Too many people I see don't hit the ball freely, or hard enough. They've been told the game is to be played entirely with the left arm and the body, and that they should be swinging "80%" all the time. 80% of what? If they aren't even able to swing at their max ability because of these ideas and limitations, then they're getting 80% of, say, 60% of their actual potential!

[TGrube]

I see the mechanical wizzards on the range all the time .the ones who stop their swings an look at themselves.i often wonder what they are lookin at..They swing like a text book.With the grace of a rusty gate..

I noticed a guy givin his 12 year old all these position instructions.an they where all bad..I wasn't really paying attention.As i picked up to go the father came to me an whispered tell him not to swing so hard.The son noticed this an asked what he said.I told him your dad wants you to just whack it.
I said he's 12 yrs old he will have plenty of time to figure out a swing Just let him have at it so the game can be fun..The kid smiled at me..An whacked it

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='TGrube' timestamp='1343658053' post='5377226']
I see the mechanical wizzards on the range all the time .the ones who stop their swings an look at themselves.i often wonder what they are lookin at..They swing like a text book.With the grace of a rusty gate..

I noticed a guy givin his 12 year old all these position instructions.an they where all bad..I wasn't really paying attention.As i picked up to go the father came to me an whispered tell him not to swing so hard.The son noticed this an asked what he said.I told him your dad wants you to just whack it.
I said he's 12 yrs old he will have plenty of time to figure out a swing Just let him have at it so the game can be fun..The kid smiled at me..An whacked it
[/quote]

Awesome!

[Swisstrader98]

Dont get all high and mighty when you yourself have not answered the question of "why/how" even after a 1000 word essay. Now that's funny!

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1343654707' post='5376950']
Yes, the inevitable "why are you focusing on distance, accuracy is the way to go" response to a "why/how" question. It's like all those threads on other boards where someone has a PC problem and asks for help, and people chime in with "get a Mac!" That's funny.

The simple fact about golf is that the more loft a club has, the more backspin it produces VS sidespin. This is one reason it's easier to bend a longer club compared to a shorter one with more loft. Similarly, the ball tends to start in the direction of the clubface in general, and most people find it easier to square the face of a short iron vs a long iron.

So there is a distinct advantage to hitting a shorter club into a green than there is a longer one. This is why "bomb and gouge" has worked so well on the pro tour. It's not that those guys aren't great long iron players, it's just that they're more accurate with shorter clubs on approach shots, so they have shorter putts and hit more greens, even from the rough (groove rule debate aside).

Therefore it's NOT unreasonable for any golfer to want to increase his distance up to the point that his physical abilities will allow. You have to realize what your limitations are, but if you're a pretty healthy person of average or even athletic build, you have to wonder what you're doing and not doing that is robbing you of distance you could normally be getting.

Tommy Armour told a story in one of his books about a large, athletic fellow who couldn't hit his driver worth a damn. A little girl was on the practice tee and she was striping it past him! The athlete decided then and there to quit the game. Armour calmed him down and took a look at his swing, and noticed that he wasn't using any hitting action at all with his hands and arms, particularly the right hand, iirc. After a few swings, the guy was pounding the ball.

Should that guy have settled for whatever distance he was getting, content to be outdriven by little girls while never hitting the ball distances he SHOULD have been able to achieve? Not in my opinion.

But too many people chase distance with technology. Up to a point (graphite shaft, larger titanium clubheads that max COI, GI clubs with juiced lofts and perimeter weighting, ball improvements) you can only get so much LEGAL help from the technology. The rest has to come from the golfer.

Too many people I see don't hit the ball freely, or hard enough. They've been told the game is to be played entirely with the left arm and the body, and that they should be swinging "80%" all the time. 80% of what? If they aren't even able to swing at their max ability because of these ideas and limitations, then they're getting 80% of, say, 60% of their actual potential!
[/quote]

[Dire Wolf]

Actually, I did, I just didn't repeat what's already been said. Read the last few paragraphs again. Why should I restate what others have said?

[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1343658501' post='5377282']
Dont get all high and mighty when you yourself have not answered the question of "why/how" even after a 1000 word essay. Now that's funny!

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1343654707' post='5376950']
Yes, the inevitable "why are you focusing on distance, accuracy is the way to go" response to a "why/how" question. It's like all those threads on other boards where someone has a PC problem and asks for help, and people chime in with "get a Mac!" That's funny.

The simple fact about golf is that the more loft a club has, the more backspin it produces VS sidespin. This is one reason it's easier to bend a longer club compared to a shorter one with more loft. Similarly, the ball tends to start in the direction of the clubface in general, and most people find it easier to square the face of a short iron vs a long iron.

So there is a distinct advantage to hitting a shorter club into a green than there is a longer one. This is why "bomb and gouge" has worked so well on the pro tour. It's not that those guys aren't great long iron players, it's just that they're more accurate with shorter clubs on approach shots, so they have shorter putts and hit more greens, even from the rough (groove rule debate aside).

Therefore it's NOT unreasonable for any golfer to want to increase his distance up to the point that his physical abilities will allow. You have to realize what your limitations are, but if you're a pretty healthy person of average or even athletic build, you have to wonder what you're doing and not doing that is robbing you of distance you could normally be getting.

Tommy Armour told a story in one of his books about a large, athletic fellow who couldn't hit his driver worth a damn. A little girl was on the practice tee and she was striping it past him! The athlete decided then and there to quit the game. Armour calmed him down and took a look at his swing, and noticed that he wasn't using any hitting action at all with his hands and arms, particularly the right hand, iirc. After a few swings, the guy was pounding the ball.

Should that guy have settled for whatever distance he was getting, content to be outdriven by little girls while never hitting the ball distances he SHOULD have been able to achieve? Not in my opinion.

But too many people chase distance with technology. Up to a point (graphite shaft, larger titanium clubheads that max COI, GI clubs with juiced lofts and perimeter weighting, ball improvements) you can only get so much LEGAL help from the technology. The rest has to come from the golfer.

Too many people I see don't hit the ball freely, or hard enough. They've been told the game is to be played entirely with the left arm and the body, and that they should be swinging "80%" all the time. 80% of what? If they aren't even able to swing at their max ability because of these ideas and limitations, then they're getting 80% of, say, 60% of their actual potential!
[/quote]
[/quote]

[MonteScheinblum]

I think there needs to be a distinction here. The difference between people swinging too easy because they don't know how to accelerate properly and people who pull the handle too hard...because they don't accelerate properly. Category 1 end up there because they used to be in category 2 but people told them they swung too hard, got quick and had bad balance.

The "hold the lag" hysteria is a big contributor to this issue. You can't hold anything, but you can watch people on every range in the world practicing pulling the handle.

If the transition is a weight shift so the arms link up, then acceleration is a full body (including hands) process.

[juststeve]

I think Jack Nicklaus would agree with Monte. He said you can't release too early so long as you get your weight to the left foot first.

In my own swing I have the sensation of releasing the club toward a point about 2 feet past the ball. I feel the release beginning right from the top. When I see photos of myself swinging there is a 90* angle between my left arm and the club shaft as I approach waist high. If you were to look at the photos you would think I was holding on to the release. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Good players don't hold the release even if pictures make you think they do.

Steve