64's from the beach?

[Solutions Etcetera]

I wasn't sure where to post this… but thought this might be better than the equipment forum as it has to do more with the shot than the gear.

 

So as not to duplicate from a recent thread, you can find some background from my last thread touching on this at: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/711046-revisiting-the-forgiving-wedge/#entry5471050

 

I am pretty good with my 64. Lots of confidence with downhill lies and short-sided gnarly rough. But I have never practiced with it from a bunker. I think the biggest reason for this is that I have not been all that consistent with it from a full swing. Moreover, I simply don't ever need to take a full swing with this club.

 

Because of my love for the 64°, and the fact that I can do almost anything I do with the 58° with an abbreviated swing with the 54°, I am considering dumping the 58 for another hybrid.

 

So my question is this: given that green side bunkers are not the strongest part of my game, and before I go out and possibly drive myself nuts trying to get proficient with a 64 out of the sand, am I just making things more difficult on myself?

 

I realize there are other options open to me, but I really would like to keep the focus on the relative difficulty with 64's for the high lipped or short bunker shot, versus something like a 58 or 60.

 

Looking forward to the reps,

 

SE

[ElVerde]

I've never played a 64 out of the sand, so I don't know what my opinion is worth here, but I'm afraid I'll say what most others will say: It depends.

If you can make it work, consistently, then awesome!

I don't even like hitting my 60 out of the sand much...I just feel like the "sweetspot" is awfully small with that much loft and the variability in lies you get in a bunker. Then again, I am FAR from a scratch golfer.

[jwash112]

You should keep the 58. I play both the 64 and the 58. There are plenty of bunkers that I wouldn't play my 64 out of. When you have that fluffy sand, i'm pulling out the 58, when you have that hard or thin bunker, I pull out the 64. having more options for shots with wedges will lower your score faster than adding another hybrid that you might not even pull out of the bag during a round.

[moonshine]

It really depends on what bounce you have imo. You are laying open any wedge you use, and I have a mpr 60/08 that is perfect from any sandy lie.

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='jwash112' timestamp='1344976243' post='5471470']
You should keep the 58. I play both the 64 and the 58. There are plenty of bunkers that I wouldn't play my 64 out of. When you have that fluffy sand, i'm pulling out the 58, when you have that hard or thin bunker, I pull out the 64.[b] having more options for shots with wedges will lower your score faster than adding another hybrid that you might not even pull out of the bag during a round.[/b]
[/quote]

+1

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1344977667' post='5471626']
[quote name='jwash112' timestamp='1344976243' post='5471470']
You should keep the 58. I play both the 64 and the 58. There are plenty of bunkers that I wouldn't play my 64 out of. When you have that fluffy sand, i'm pulling out the 58, when you have that hard or thin bunker, I pull out the 64.[b] having more options for shots with wedges will lower your score faster than adding another hybrid that you might not even pull out of the bag during a round.[/b]
[/quote]

+1
[/quote]

So neither of you play a 54 or 56 out of sand? I usually have better results with my 54 than my 58, which is why I am thinking the 64 may be even more difficult.

[Willie Malay]

I play a 54(low bounce) Cleveland from the sand almost exclusively. Opened up it's like a.....60 medium-high bounce? If you open a 64 in the sand you now have a ...70? Yikes.

[ElVerde]

I play 56 out of the sand most of the time...but it depends on the lie. I've definitely used my 60 out of a harder packed bunker, or when there is big lip, or when I need a little extra loft.

I love having more wedges for full shots though.

[sharkiesj]

The type of lie and sand dictates the shot. That being said, I love my 64* out of the sand and my bunker play has improved immensly. Before, I'd open up a 57 swipe across the ball and be decent. But with a 64 I literally just square things up and swing 2 inches behind the ball and it comes out everytime, sweet and deadly.. Almost borderline cheating. I'd outlaw the 64* wedge before the long/belly putter.

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='sharkiesj' timestamp='1344984057' post='5472210']
The type of lie and sand dictates the shot. That being said, I love my 64* out of the sand and my bunker play has improved immensly. Before, I'd open up a 57 swipe across the ball and be decent. But with a 64 I literally just square things up and swing 2 inches behind the ball and it comes out everytime, sweet and deadly.. Almost borderline cheating. I'd outlaw the 64* wedge before the long/belly putter.
[/quote]

With it squared up, are those two inches you playing it forward in your stance, or steeper swing hitting behind the ball with a normal ball position?

[WildDog06]

I usually use the 54* out of the sand, unless its right up on the lip, then i use the 60*. Found myself about 6" back from the lip of a 3' high sod face bunker a couple weeks ago, opened up the 60* and basically took a full swing, and put the ball on the center of the green. Was pretty happy with that result...

[moonshine]

I tried 54 from the sand, just looks weird to me. Always play 56-60 with good results.

[Solutions Etcetera]

Hmmm… looks like I'll have to hit the practice bunkers with my 64° and experiment a little. Kind of a drag though as the practice bunkers are rarely the same as the green side bunkers on the course, they're more like the fairway traps (hard, thin surface).

[DLiver]

I think it really depends on the wedge. I played Vokeys for many years. I couldn't find a Vokey 60 that worked well out of the sand for me. That was fine, because the 56 worked so well. Then I got a set of Cally wedges and found the 60 to be awesome out of the sand. In fact the Cally wedges were way more versatile than the Vokeys for me. Who knew? So I guess I'm saying there are no absolutes--you just have top find what works for you.

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='DLiver' timestamp='1344986579' post='5472456']the Cally wedges were way more versatile[/quote]

Couldn't agree more… there's something magical about the geometry/soles. My 58 and 64 are marked 13 and 12, yet I can nip the ball off a tight lie better than my 60/05 Mizzy, and they just don't dig.

[Titleist 670]

I have a 54, 58, and 64 - I like my 64 from the sand quite a bit, but I'm also not a great wedge player. I would experiment a bit and see what works best for you. Typically, though, I would agree with the poster who said tha thaving more wedges in the bag is probably more helpful than having another hybrid.

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1344988500' post='5472652'] I would agree with the poster who said tha thaving more wedges in the bag is probably more helpful than having another hybrid.[/quote]

Maybe if I could hit my 3 wood off the deck in less than a perfect lies (there are plenty where I play), but I can't, and oh how I've tried. The new 17° hybrid is hit on most par 5s, and some long (or duffed) par 4s unless the lie is perfect.

I have played a number of rounds with 15 clubs and I rarely play the 58 in any spot I could not use the 54. And when I've pulled the 58, I have rarely missed it. The 54 is a G20 SW and flies as high as the 58, but just goes farther. Choking down, a little less backswing, and bingo!. Really the only issue I think is sand (hence this thread), and I don't visit the beach all that often.

Please know I am not trying to be argumentative towards the advice I have asked for… but puulleeaassseee let me keep my 17°. (c;

There has been some good stuff here so far. We'll see tomorrow or Thurs how the 64 works square in the sand… and I know at least one of the practice bunkers well be hard and thin, so we'll see what that is like as well. Your comment (and a couple of other here) at least have me hopeful. Considering my bunker play with the 54, I am really only looking for a high shot of 10-30 ft. We'll see… I'll report back if anyone is interested.

One other option is bending the 64 closer to the 58, perhaps 61, but I am leery of messing up the magic sole. I am often faced with severe downhill lies where I need to bump the ball 2-10 feet forward and land it soft, short of the collar, to keep it from running off the other side of the green. I know I shouldn't be there in the first place, but with big trouble in front, I often am. )c: Much more difficult to open the 58 to do this and still strike it like I want. Plus the 64 is so good on short shots from thick rough cause I can keep it accelerating and not worry about airmailing my target.

Thanks, and wish me luck!

[jwash112]

[quote name='Solutions Etcetera' timestamp='1344979099' post='5471750']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1344977667' post='5471626']
[quote name='jwash112' timestamp='1344976243' post='5471470']
You should keep the 58. I play both the 64 and the 58. There are plenty of bunkers that I wouldn't play my 64 out of. When you have that fluffy sand, i'm pulling out the 58, when you have that hard or thin bunker, I pull out the 64.[b] having more options for shots with wedges will lower your score faster than adding another hybrid that you might not even pull out of the bag during a round.[/b]
[/quote]

+1
[/quote]

So neither of you play a 54 or 56 out of sand? I usually have better results with my 54 than my 58, which is why I am thinking the 64 may be even more difficult.
[/quote]

Actually, I never use the 54 out of the sand. Just the 58 or 64, easy out with both. I only use the 54 for full shots. Thinking about bending it to 53

[MetalManic]

[quote name='sharkiesj' timestamp='1344984057' post='5472210']
The type of lie and sand dictates the shot. That being said, I love my 64* out of the sand and my bunker play has improved immensly. Before, I'd open up a 57 swipe across the ball and be decent. But with a 64 I literally just square things up and swing 2 inches behind the ball and it comes out everytime, sweet and deadly.. Almost borderline cheating. I'd outlaw the 64* wedge before the long/belly putter.
[/quote]

Totally. Where I practice has no bunkers, so I've never really felt confident from them, and the 64 keeps it simple. The traditional approach of opening the face of a lower lofted club and swinging across the target line means you have less effective club-face to hit the ball with, and so a greater chance of catching the ball on the hosel (well, for a hacker like me, not an issue for a pro or + hcp'er that's practiced bunker shots for 4 guzillion years I guess.)

[Solutions Etcetera]

Thought I would post an update on my experience after a few practice sessions...

Opening the 64 to get the extra bounce out of fluffy sand was not an option; ball just goes practically straight up. Keeping it square was just ok for hard firm bunkers. I am beginning to rethink my love for the 64° as, for me, it seems to be a very single purpose club.

I opted for a fairly low bounce 60° to replace both the 58 and 64. I chose the Ping Tour-W in 8° as I wanted the U grooves and the toe weighting (as that seems to be working pretty well in my G20's). Through four rounds it has been very good off of tight lies and maintains a quite low leading edge when opened up. Last round I had one chip in from a short-sided, downhill lie, and almost a second that ended up 6 inches a way, and quite a number of others within my tap in range.

The Ping seems heavier than the Jaws, and that heft seems to give me a bit more control and almost eliminates that almost subconscious deceleration one can apply when you just need to pop it up and forward a yard or three.

In any event, it has so far been a very viable alternative to carrying a 58/64 combo. It also seems to be a bit more consistent on 3/4 to full (although I never really have taken any full, flat out) swings than the Jaws.

Nice job Ping!