Why people work the ball certain ways

[Jericho]

I've been on a seemingly lifelong quest to hit a draw. Finally learned how to hit it (in the form of straight draws, and of course pull-hooks). I then started reading about the new ball flight laws because I'm vain and wanted to learn to hit the ever-popular push draw. Well it got me to thinking about why people hit certain shots, and was hoping maybe people here could fill me in.

 

There is a putting video out there that explains how the clubface dictates the initial direction of the ball and the swing path dictates the arc (thus a push-draw = open face/pointing to the right + inside out swing) whereas the old laws claimed that the path dictated the ball direction and the face dictated the arc. With that being understood here is my question:

 

Other than to avoid an obstacle, why would anyone play a push/pull anything as those shots require you to alter your natural swing path? Think about it, when you putt with a right to left break, you alter your setup, putt it straight and let the break do the work.

 

If you naturally swing with a slight in-to-out, and you aim at the target, the result will be the ball starting straight and then drawing to the left (presumably passed the target). A reasonable solution is to do the exact same swing but just turn your whole body to the right. With the push-draw you're opening the face and having to take a bigger in-to-out path. I gotta believe that for the amateur, the higher % shot is to simply adjust your aim versus adjusting your swing path. Personally I'm thinking it'd be easier to simply aim a little right along with my tried and true swing path as opposed to opening the face 3* and trying to swing in-to-out by 6*.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Thanks

[raynorfan1]

For me, it's about playing the miss. I pick which side of the fairway I want to be on, and cut/draw in that direction.

If I miss a "straight" shot, it could go left, it could go right. I don't really know (depends on the miss). If I miss a draw, it goes either straight or too far left. So I'm either down the middle, or a little too far down the side I wanted to be down anyway.

[Jericho]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1345480469' post='5503608']
For me, it's about playing the miss. I pick which side of the fairway I want to be on, and cut/draw in that direction.

If I miss a "straight" shot, it could go left, it could go right. I don't really know (depends on the miss). If I miss a draw, it goes either straight or too far left. So I'm either down the middle, or a little too far down the side I wanted to be down anyway.
[/quote]

My question is more of about why play a push-draw, that requires you to alter your swing path, when you could simply turn your body to the right and play a straight-draw? The 2 shots hypothetically should arrive around the same spot however the straight draw allows one to use their same swing path.

[Mschumacher]

I'm a natural drawer/hooker which I hate because its so unpredictable for me. The last year or so though, I am doing what your suggesting. I aim left and play for a cut. My misses tend to be a lot tighter. Either dead straight or it will fade back to the middle.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Jericho' timestamp='1345481164' post='5503694']
My question is more of about why play a push-draw, that requires you to alter your swing path, when you could simply turn your body to the right and play a straight-draw? The 2 shots hypothetically should arrive around the same spot however the straight draw allows one to use their same swing path.
[/quote]

For me, the exaggerated swing path eliminates the possibility of the adverse outcome. If I put an in-to-out swing on the ball, it is virtually impossible for the ball to bend right. If I miss the straight draw, the right side is still in play.

[Jericho]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1345481430' post='5503720']For me, the exaggerated swing path eliminates the possibility of the adverse outcome. If I put an in-to-out swing on the ball, it is virtually impossible for the ball to bend right. If I miss the straight draw, the right side is still in play.[/quote]

My next question is obviously a case-by-case basis but "are you more likely to have an adverse outcome with your natural swing or an exaggerated one?"

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Jericho' timestamp='1345481593' post='5503730']
My next question is obviously a case-by-case basis but "are you more likely to have an adverse outcome with your natural swing or an exaggerated one?"
[/quote]

Interestingly, I'm probably more consistent with an 'exaggerated' swing path than a 'grip it and rip it' natural swing. It just seems easier for me to focus on what I'm trying to accomplish.

[dwing]

Sounds like you're taking the words push/pull in the literal sense. I've never heard anyone say they're going to play a "push-draw".

I play a draw off the tee , and most times, as I see the ball leave the tee.. it is heading right of my setup/aim line & then it draws back and across my target line. I don't call it a push draw but I suppose in literal terms it could be considered that.

And by the way, your straight draw vs pull hook makes sense. You're on a fine line of having that clubhead going straight down the line at impact .. or the club headed out to in at impact... which very possibly can be attributed to set up. The driver head could have already completed its bottom-out position , is on its way up, and therefore will (in most cases) be traveling out to in at that point. Thus, pull hook. Put the ball back in your stance slightly , and you might start seeing a "push draw" (and less pull hooks).

[MelloYello]

1.) You don't want to invite the tendency--let alone make it a necessity--that you aim [u][i]away[/i][/u] from your intended target.

This causes various problems mainly due to the fact that we--being human--could never consistently aim some specific degree away from the target, nor would doing so create a feeling of ease or comfort. [i][u]However[/u][/i], we must do that slightly as we play golf. We should resist that however and try to aim at our targets as much as possible and as often as possible to not only make the game easier and more simplistic but also to avoid inconsistency in it's various manifestations.

2.) Playing a standard shot (one that curves [u][i]slightly[/i][/u]) shouldn't require aiming very far off the target.

Most players probably curve the ball too much and thusly force themselves to either aim significantly [i][u]away[/u][/i] from their target (hard to judge) or develop swings that [u][i]push[/i][/u] or [i][u]pull[/u][/i] the ball initially to compensate for extra curvature which is also a bad idea in the long run.

3.) Tweaks in alignment and swing path should be exceptional during a round, not constantly moving pieces.

The more variability in a golf swing, the more the player is forced to iron out the wrinkles by feel. If the player has to sequence each swing differently it causes a lot of inconsistency. Players should thusly try to hit their stock fade or draw as straight as possible and use a few 'moving pieces' (like varying swing paths and changing alignments) when adjusting for a particular circumstance on the course.

[Pepperturbo]

The game is play the golf course...not the swing. My swing / result is defined by the shot, otherwise, I hit the ball as straight as possible. Why, because that is what my setup and swing does naturally. IMO People don't consciously choose to play push draws or... They typically play a swing bias. Only those that like to tinker with their swings and swing theory, think swing bias doesn't exist.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Jericho' timestamp='1345481593' post='5503730']
[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1345481430' post='5503720']For me, the exaggerated swing path eliminates the possibility of the adverse outcome. If I put an in-to-out swing on the ball, it is virtually impossible for the ball to bend right. If I miss the straight draw, the right side is still in play.[/quote]

My next question is obviously a case-by-case basis but "are you more likely to have an adverse outcome with your natural swing or an exaggerated one?"
[/quote]

One you're not confident in.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1345488034' post='5504392']
[quote name='Jericho' timestamp='1345481593' post='5503730']
[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1345481430' post='5503720']For me, the exaggerated swing path eliminates the possibility of the adverse outcome. If I put an in-to-out swing on the ball, it is virtually impossible for the ball to bend right. If I miss the straight draw, the right side is still in play.[/quote]

My next question is obviously a case-by-case basis but "are you more likely to have an adverse outcome with your natural swing or an exaggerated one?"
[/quote]

One you're not confident in.
[/quote]

I think that's right. To my eye, it's just easier to hit something with a little curve in it (in either direction) than to go perfectly straight. It's probably also a question of objectives and expectations. If I think to myself that I want to be on the left side of the fairway, and hit a draw that starts middle-ish and heads for the left side, I'm satisfied with any outcome from the edge of the left rough to the centerline of the fairway.

If I'm trying to put it down the middle, I could be 30 yards left-of-center (still on the fairway) and be really disappointed with myself for not executing. The fact (for me) is that a straight ball almost demands more precision and higher expectations than something with a draw or cut. I guess it's easier to be more confident when you have lower expectations.

[cbrian]

You don't necessarily have to swing more to the right to hit a push draw.

If you are starting the ball at the target and it is drawing away from it, that means that your path is at least somewhat to the right of the target. Lets say that your path is fairly neutral; something like 3* right. To hit a push draw (starting right and ending on target) all you would have to do is move your face around 1.5* right.

One of the biggest benefits of doing that would be that you are making the differential between face and path smaller; making the strike more efficient.

[nikos74]

The way I see it is there are two ways to accomplish a bending shot, but the most reliable way is to adjust your stance in relation to the target line and let the club do all the work. The second method is having a non-neutral grip and simply keep your standard stance.

I have not practiced the second method intentionally so I cannot know how effective/reliable it is. I guess you would hit a shot that starts straight and then bends radically to some direction.

The clubface angle at impact determines the amount of sidespin on the ball and the swingpath determines the initial direction the ball would take. I think the old formula was correct, hence why it is important to make contact at the lowest point and when the club is pointing directly at the target. If the club is pointing elsewhere at impact you would MISS!

[cbrian]

[quote name='nikos74' timestamp='1345571289' post='5510404']
The way I see it is there are two ways to accomplish a bending shot, but the most reliable way is to adjust your stance in relation to the target line and let the club do all the work. The second method is having a non-neutral grip and simply keep your standard stance.

I have not practiced the second method intentionally so I cannot know how effective/reliable it is. I guess you would hit a shot that starts straight and then bends radically to some direction.

[b]The clubface angle at impact determines the amount of sidespin on the ball and the swingpath determines the initial direction the ball would take[/b]. I think the old formula was correct, hence why it is important to make contact at the lowest point and when the club is pointing directly at the target. If the club is pointing elsewhere at impact you would MISS!
[/quote]

Sorry, but that just isn't correct.

[K31795]

[quote name='Jericho' timestamp='1345481164' post='5503694']
[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1345480469' post='5503608']
For me, it's about playing the miss. I pick which side of the fairway I want to be on, and cut/draw in that direction.

If I miss a "straight" shot, it could go left, it could go right. I don't really know (depends on the miss). If I miss a draw, it goes either straight or too far left. So I'm either down the middle, or a little too far down the side I wanted to be down anyway.
[/quote]

My question is more of about why play a push-draw, that requires you to alter your swing path, when you could simply turn your body to the right and play a straight-draw? The 2 shots hypothetically should arrive around the same spot however the straight draw allows one to use their same swing path.
[/quote]

Most people who hit a push draw IMHO do so because their natural swing path is inside-out by several degrees.

A "straight draw" one that starts down the target line and then curves left of it is a much more difficult shot to hit than you think. It requires a club face slightly closed to the target line and a path open to the target line.

[K31795]

[quote name='nikos74' timestamp='1345571289' post='5510404']
The way I see it is there are two ways to accomplish a bending shot, but the most reliable way is to adjust your stance in relation to the target line and let the club do all the work. The second method is having a non-neutral grip and simply keep your standard stance.

I have not practiced the second method intentionally so I cannot know how effective/reliable it is. I guess you would hit a shot that starts straight and then bends radically to some direction.

The clubface angle at impact determines the amount of sidespin on the ball and the swingpath determines the initial direction the ball would take. I think the old formula was correct, hence why it is important to make contact at the lowest point and when the club is pointing directly at the target. If the club is pointing elsewhere at impact you would MISS!
[/quote]

There are so many things wrong with this post