Persimmon drivers with really nice grain pattern ?

[mocokid]

Who's talking about nice grain ???

 

MacGregor Ben Hogan Tourney Oil Hardened driver, circa 1950, original True Temper shaft (band fell off), with the super cool, original long cord grip. No cracks in neck, serial #118118 is visible, 43", sits very square. I re-finished it last yr, small epoxy/persimmon repair job on the heel side of the insert, barely visible. This is the REAL deal with BH stamped on face (NOT a decal), as well as "Oil-Hardened" stamped on sole and serial

 

 

[freddiec]

Beautiful. Who did the refinish?

[rex235]

Moco-

Nice club, and very nice work on the 65 year old, relatively rare MacGregor Ben Hogan Driver.
(Rare is having a 693 stamp!)

Not surprised about the crack near the insert and the heel-

"Any cracks near the insert and heel might have resulted from the very close proximity of the shaft and the front soleplate screw."

Dave Wood has mentioned these types of cracks in a number of his repair work points.

Apparently one of these led to the demise of Sam Snead's Driver.

[mocokid]

I re-finished myself, primarily sanding and filling the area next to the insert (epoxy and persimmon sawdust). I elected not the take off the sole plate, nor the insert itself. I've done some refinishing in the past and read Dave Wood's PDF, which is VERY good.

[freddiec]

I have a MacGregor Tourney Ben Hogan from that same era, red insert, 5 screw. Face profile very much like a 1952 693. Its has perfect Horseshoe grain. I think this block was hand selected. Dave Wood thought it might have been made for the Man himself Mr. Hogan.[attachment=3062520:HogansHogan.jpg][attachment=3062526:Hogan2Hog.jpg][attachment=3062802:BHog_sole.jpg]

[rex235]

Freddie-

My Goodness!

All the magnificent persimmon woods you have.....

This One...Too?.

If Dave Wood thinks so, then to me there's not any doubt Ben Hogan held this one....

What? No soleplate shot?

[b][i]Thanks for the addition....[/i][/b]

[freddiec]

Rex, sole plate pic added above. No back weight on this club. Dave said if the sole plate is removed he could inspect to see if Hogan's Trademark weight port (toe side) was present. I have not done this.. perhaps someday

[oldschoolrocker]

Very good looking piece of wood.

[rex235]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1449867539' post='12708664']
Rex, sole plate pic added above. No back weight on this club. Dave said if the sole plate is removed he could inspect to see if Hogan's Trademark weight port (toe side) was present. I have not done this.. perhaps someday
[/quote]

Freddie-

Someday?

Now it's my turn.

"Ben Hogan was perhaps the best golfer pound-per-pound who ever lived. He was a thrilling golfer. He expected perfection from himself and was always thinking of the [b][i]flawless[/i][/b] shot, not the good shot...... The astonishing distance he gained was the result of perfect timing, exchange of weight, and the almost incredible speed at which Ben accelerated his clubhead as it entered the hitting area.
[u][i]Hogan's all out shots with a wood or a long iron were the ultimate development of the steel shaft swing that had grown up in America."[/i][/u]

From [i]"The Story of American Golf" - Herbert Warren Wind[/i]

[HoganApexBlades]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1449851287' post='12707520']
I have a MacGregor Tourney Ben Hogan from that same era, red insert, 5 screw. Face profile very much like a 1952 693. Its has perfect Horseshoe grain. I think this block was hand selected. Dave Wood thought it might have been made for the Man himself Mr. Hogan.[attachment=3062520:HogansHogan.jpg][attachment=3062526:Hogan2Hog.jpg][attachment=3062802:BHog_sole.jpg]
[/quote]

Freddie - that Mac Hogan is absolutely STUNNING! Thanks for the pics!

[SteveNZ]

PT1W 4 wood here. More of a straight-grain specimen...

[attachment=3063490:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1449913150.463687.jpg]

[jonnygrouville]

Ooof! Some nice timber round here.

How does anyone feel about the amount of face there is either side of the insert? The first MacGregor above looks like there is a similar area either side, but the second looks a little toe heavy. A lot of the Hogan woods I have seen seem to have more out in the toe as well. Just wondering if this is something done on purpose, for preference or whatever.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='jonnygrouville' timestamp='1449954983' post='12712268']
Ooof! Some nice timber round here.

How does anyone feel about the amount of face there is either side of the insert? The first MacGregor above looks like there is a similar area either side, but the second looks a little toe heavy. A lot of the Hogan woods I have seen seem to have more out in the toe as well. Just wondering if this is something done on purpose, for preference or whatever.
[/quote]


Maybe they were paying attention to horizontal CG location? <shrug>

[freddiec]

Johnny, good catch ! I agree, my Hogan has an insert that was put in with what looks like heel bias. I think the club was some sort of custom build out for a staff player, could have been Hogan. I've hit this club a few times and its a super solid and what I've noticed the club favors a swing that favors a fade shot. The face is also pretty long, top line is a tad over 3 inches like 3 and qtr inches which is pretty long for a club of that era. With wooden clubs that were all pretty unique and allowed the club maker many options to build out a specific spec for the player. The club is also pretty heavy, at 43.5 inches its got a D4 to D5 sw.

[jonnygrouville]

More weight out towards the toe supposedly makes it tougher to close the face. Can't remember where I read that, but this is where I put lead if I am weighting something up. Probably more psychosomatic now than anything else.

Only something I have noticed recently having found some clubs that are more symmetrical and others that have this toe bias. Maybe a way of seeing more face at address? Looking a little more open? Or just thinking too much?

Centre of gravity? Maybe. Just have a sense that these designers were using their eyes more than physics.

Interested to hear if anyone knows whether this is a design feature someone thought about.

[teevons]

Nice grain on these 2, Macgregor Mt and Louisville Slugger

[Texsport]

Nice examples! Love that MT!

The deep face in the background is also notable.

I've got about a half a dozen Irving King woods with great grain and deep faces - need to dig 'em out.

Texsport

[Texsport]

Has anyone ever tried torching on a persimmon to bring out the grain?

Texsport

[teevons]

[list]
[*]
[/list]
Nice examples! Love that MT!

The deep face in the background is also notable.

I've got about a half a dozen Irving King woods with great grain and deep faces - need to dig 'em out.



Here is the deep face you saw on bench, it is a Fernquest & Johnson -Custom driver, little over 1 3/4 inch face
I Love the real deep face drivers from the other brands other than Macgregor etc.

[Texsport]

Now that's beautiful + nice and deep.

Tony Lema played their clubs I believe - didn't he?

I've also got a number of Charlie Penna's collection he auctioned off. Most all of the clubs TP made for himself and for his brother Charlie are stained black. Several are deep faced and heavy blocks with no need of back weights. Always suspected that some special grain is hidden under the black finishes, but haven't had any refinished in the interest of originality - but tempted.

Texsport

[teevons]

Yes, I used to have a set of F&J woods and irons with Lema stamped on them, great clubs.

[Texsport]

Example of a club with unknown, but suspected great grain .... Charlie Penna MacGregor JAM Custom Deepface driver

I hope Mr Penna is watching....
[attachment=3068696:CPennaJAMcrownsig.jpg]
[attachment=3068698:CPennaJAMface.jpg]
[attachment=3068700:CPennaMacJAMCustomsole.jpg]
[attachment=3068702:CPennaJAMback.jpg]
[attachment=3068704:CPennaJAMnecknumbers.jpg]

I own quite a few of the clubs Mr Penna auctioned off, and we could probably organized a pretty interesting and lengthy Penna Proto thread here!

Texsport

P S - I believe this club is one of 50-100 sets Charley Penna sold every year under the custom stamp - often to other golf pros - possibly to the individual pro's specs. Another pro with a big pro shop account business was Herman Barron. It's a reason that various club pros names can be found on MacGregor woods. This club bears a J A M stamp and possibly was for Illinois born and '70 - '78 PGA Tour player Jim A Jamieson, who had T3 and T5 finishes in the Masters and T2 and T6 place finishes in the PGA Championship. He retired at age 35 after breaking his hand in a fall.

The club is 44" long, has a cord grip with a reminder ridge under the finger, along the bottom of the grip, and the face is a full 1 3/4" deep - a jumbo.

[xgolfx]

[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1450286703' post='12727726']
Example of a club with unknown, but suspected great grain .... Charlie Penna MacGregor JAM Custom Deepface driver

I hope Mr Penna is watching....
[attachment=3068696:CPennaJAMcrownsig.jpg]
[attachment=3068698:CPennaJAMface.jpg]
[attachment=3068700:CPennaMacJAMCustomsole.jp
[attachment=3068702:CPennaJAMback.jpg]
[attachment=3068704:CPennaJAMnecknumbers.jpg]

I own quite a few of the clubs Mr Penna auctioned off, and we could probably organized a pretty interesting and lengthy Penna Proto
thread here!

Texsport
[/quote].


Tha driver shown was not mine. however, I do know who JAM was.

CHARLEY PENNA

[Texsport]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1450288495' post='12727812']
[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1450286703' post='12727726']
Example of a club with unknown, but suspected great grain .... Charlie Penna MacGregor JAM Custom Deepface driver

I hope Mr Penna is watching....
[attachment=3068696:CPennaJAMcrownsig.jpg]
[attachment=3068698:CPennaJAMface.jpg]
[attachment=3068700:CPennaMacJAMCustomsole.jp
[attachment=3068702:CPennaJAMback.jpg]
[attachment=3068704:CPennaJAMnecknumbers.jpg]

I own quite a few of the clubs Mr Penna auctioned off, and we could probably organized a pretty interesting and lengthy Penna Proto
thread here!

Texsport
[/quote].


Tha driver shown was not mine. however, I do know who JAM was.

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

I did a search and only found Joseph MacGregor - but don't think that's the answer - is it?

Would be very interested to know, if you would be so kind, sir.....

Texsport

[xgolfx]

I never saw Toney Penna, or Charley Penna use any wood club that was not finished in BLACK for their personal use. They may have tested other colors , but when it was a tournament, or a "hit the hip" game, it was always black. Many inserts and shafts were used. It may surprise you ( the readers of this site) to know how little you know about the persimmon era clubs. The emphasis of almost everyone who posts on this site,with few exceptions, is on the importance of the material in the club head . A cavalier attitude of most posters for the shaft is in direct contrast to the designer's concept. TONEY PENNA FELT THAT THE SHAFT WAS NINETY PERCENT OF THE CLUB. THE GRIP AND HEAD WERE ONLY TEN PERCENT. The beginning of a set for personal use was weighing shafts of the proper flex. I have seen him go through dozens to select four for a wood set. With irons, it may have been a hundred to find ten. When the readers on this site change shafts ( and invariably lengthen the clubs) , they have altered (by 90%) the designer's intent. The club is further ruined by sanding off the crown, altering the face, removing the bulge and roll,and changing the color.

My aversion to refinished clubs is a result of my respect for the design and the knowledge that altering to remove the scratches ruins the club. I presume that this will not make most readers happy,but I don't GAS.

CHARLEY PENNA

[Texsport]

So THAT'S why, indeed, that I need to change shafts so many times to get a driver just right!

Texsport

[jonnygrouville]

Tony Lema clubs! Deep-face!! From San Fransisco!!! Get out of my dreams and into my car. That has to be the coolest thing I have ever heard. This guy was a legend.

 

Have it!

 

 

So much lag that palm tree is getting out of the way.

 

How have I got this far through my golfing career without knowing that these existed?

 

[Texsport]

Now that's a square toed iron!

Sweet

Texsport

[xgolfx]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1450288495' post='12727812']
[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1450286703' post='12727726']
Example of a club with unknown, but suspected great grain .... Charlie Penna MacGregor JAM Custom Deepface driver

I hope Mr Penna is watching....
[attachment=3068696:CPennaJAMcrownsig.jpg]
[attachment=3068698:CPennaJAMface.jpg]
[attachment=3068700:CPennaMacJAMCustomsole.jp
[attachment=3068702:CPennaJAMback.jpg]
[attachment=3068704:CPennaJAMnecknumbers.jpg]

I own quite a few of the clubs Mr Penna auctioned off, and we could probably organized a pretty interesting and lengthy Penna Proto
thread here!

Texsport
[/quote].


Tha driver shown was not mine. however, I do know who JAM was.

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote].


STILL WAITING FOR YOUR CALL ABOUT THE STYMIE IRON

CHARLEY PENNA

[Texsport]

[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1450293277' post='12728116']
[quote name='xgolfx' timestamp='1450288495' post='12727812']
[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1450286703' post='12727726']
Example of a club with unknown, but suspected great grain .... Charlie Penna MacGregor JAM Custom Deepface driver

I hope Mr Penna is watching....
[attachment=3068696:CPennaJAMcrownsig.jpg]
[attachment=3068698:CPennaJAMface.jpg]
[attachment=3068700:CPennaMacJAMCustomsole.jp
[attachment=3068702:CPennaJAMback.jpg]
[attachment=3068704:CPennaJAMnecknumbers.jpg]

I own quite a few of the clubs Mr Penna auctioned off, and we could probably organized a pretty interesting and lengthy Penna Proto
thread here!

Texsport
[/quote].


Tha driver shown was not mine. however, I do know who JAM was.

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote].


STILL WAITING FOR YOUR CALL ABOUT THE STYMIE IRON

CHARLEY PENNA
[/quote]

Right after I get through being Santa - promise it's at the top of my list!

Texsport