JAMES HAHN - BEST SWING YOU'VE NEVER SEEN?

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1351708348' post='5873439']
Arms wont move as far left as soon with driver. Ball is being hit off a tee and from a much shallower AOA. His path is still right around zero to a touch left with driver. [b]If he looked the same with driver as he does with 7 iron it'd be steep low spinny cuts[/b].
[/quote]

I don't know about this. Guys like Hunter and Woodland look the same with the driver and iron and don't hit those ballflights.

This video shows more clearly what I mean about arms chasing away from body and club shutting down. Most Hogan nuts, at least myself, see that in a swing and automatically classify it as a weak spot. But maybe it doesn't really matter and I don't know much.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoiguK_dch0&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoiguK_dch0&feature=player_embedded[/url]

[iteachgolf]

That is an older swing. Looks a lot better now. Hogan and Mahan are not even close swing wise. Mahan's right arm is very behind him and plays from under plane very similar to Rory. Right elbow location and the effect on how open the shoulders must be has a huge difference in how it looks. Hunter has a completely flat right wrist with a cupped left wrist very shortly after impact. Because hunter gets right elbow so far behind him and plays from under plane his overtaking rate is actually higher than James. James is working on staying in his tilts better with driver so his right arm stays bent a bit longer and he has more tilt at impact but in every good golfers swing the driver has the plane line the most right and the handle raising the fastest. If James' handle was as low through the ball with driver as it is with an iron he'd hit it 30 yards shorter and low spinny cuts. it's not the same as Hogan but it's what works best for James and today's equipment

 

Handle height and distance from body of hands for Hogan iron vs. wood

 

[geesecougar2]

Hahn. James Hahn.

I don't know about this technical speak but congrats to James. Great family and well liked by everyone, except when the range is mats only and he gets to practice at the back of the range on grass; everyone sees him (not knowing who he is) and thinks they should get to use the grass too!

On another note, I remember chatting with him at his (our) hometown driving range about a year ago and him talking about working on getting a bit more of an "over the top" feel on his downswing, kind of like Tom Watson worked on in his later years. I guess it worked out for him! He wasn't ready for the big show after his rookie year, but hopefully he is ready now. Will be rooting for him all year.

[tylerdurden]

That is an older swing. Looks a lot better now. Hogan and Mahan are not even close swing wise. Mahan's right arm is very behind him and plays from under plane very similar to Rory. Right elbow location and the effect on how open the shoulders must be has a huge difference in how it looks. Hunter has a completely flat right wrist with a cupped left wrist very shortly after impact. Because hunter gets right elbow so far behind him and plays from under plane his overtaking rate is actually higher than James. James is working on staying in his tilts better with driver so his right arm stays bent a bit longer and he has more tilt at impact but in every good golfers swing the driver has the plane line the most right and the handle raising the fastest. If James' handle was as low through the ball with driver as it is with an iron he'd hit it 30 yards shorter and low spinny cuts. it's not the same as Hogan but it's what works best for James and today's equipment

 

Handle height and distance from body of hands for Hogan iron vs. wood

 

 

I appreciate the response. What is overtaking rate? I've never heard that term before.

 

Also, just curious if you consider Hogan under plane and how you define under plane? Hogan seems to get the club as shallow as both Rory and Hunter, but I think he keeps the grip more out in front of him, and I'm guessing you wouldn't say he's under plane because of that? Thanks again.

[iteachgolf]

Hogan is shallow but after the transition the club is steepening the entire downswing, not under plane Hogan was in pitch/pitchish elbow and the opposite of the punch/push elbow Mahan and Rory get into. To keep it simple overtaking rate is the rate at which the clubhead passes the hands. Hunter has very little shaft lean, even on partial wedge shots and him being as shallow as he is without a lot of shaft lean causes a lot of issues with his short game. If you are going to be shallow you better have some lag/shaft lean so you don't fat/flubb partial shots and can get low point more forward. Also why he isn't the best out of the rough.

[tylerdurden]

Awesome thanks again.

[ej002]

I agree with you TD, in the first video in the OP, there is a slight stall and flip. Maybe this is an old vid, b/c it is not as noticeable in the second video (of the OP). Also see it in this driver swing on this page.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1351712757' post='5873801']

[/quote]
Back to Hahn...i see some vids about shallowing the club. How long did it take for him to do this more in tournament rounds/without thinking about it?
The guys right arm is straight a whole lot longer and he creates way more space than me. I'm jealous lol. Still dropping towels

[iteachgolf]

I would say 3 events. Finally clicked at the tour championship. It's something he's done before but didn't now the rest of the puzzle and hit overdraws. So it was not only shallowing but also getting him to stay in tilts better

[irish jim]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1351708463' post='5873453']
[quote name='irish jim' timestamp='1351705936' post='5873227']
I was wondering if Jim could elaborate on how Rory's transition could be improved. There is such a thin line between coming over the top slightly on transition or conversely having a bit too much right shoulder tilt causing an in to out path at impact.
[/quote]

Like so many swing issues, you first need to find the two extremes, as you state so well. Then - you can find the "balance point" right in the middle. Right spine tilt can be too much, too little or just right. And same for upper arm rotation, too much and you shallow the shaft plane too much, and your path becomes too much in to out. These are just some general observations, I would have to spend a lot more of my time closely analyzing Rory's action from several different angles to come up with an actual recommendation that one could rely on.

One can play around with this dynamically for the advanced player by isolating either the arm rotation or the side tilt, and trying to hit a push or pull by altering path dramatically, ie through exagerration of that swing piece in both directions - too much, too little. Then - see if you can hit the ball dead straight, ie zero out the path. Clearly identify the sensations in the body part in question that allows one to hit it straight, and repeat many, many times.
[/quote]

Thanks, Jim

[Empros]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1351698589' post='5872425']The question of "would you change his swing" is a challenging one
[/quote]

Only on WRX would people ruminate over Rory changing his swing. When this guy, who admittedly has a good looking swing, does [i]anything[/i] in the realms of what RM is doing, I'll take notice. For now, it's a good looking swing....in a sea of good looking swings.

Is he straight hitter, though? That's pretty one dimensional.
Does he 'curve' the ball, though? That's pretty one dimensional.

And also lol @ the comments inferring RM 'could' be great. Some people need a reality check.

[Oldboy]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1351712757' post='5873801']
Hogan is shallow but after the transition the club is steepening the entire downswing, not under plane Hogan was in pitch/pitchish elbow and the opposite of the punch/push elbow Mahan and Rory get into. To keep it simple overtaking rate is the rate at which the clubhead passes the hands. Hunter has very little shaft lean, even on partial wedge shots and him being as shallow as he is without a lot of shaft lean causes a lot of issues with his short game. If you are going to be shallow you better have some lag/shaft lean so you don't fat/flubb partial shots and can get low point more forward. Also why he isn't the best out of the rough.
[/quote]

That.. Is what you call breaking someone down.. Good insight..

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Empros' timestamp='1351720433' post='5874317']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1351698589' post='5872425']The question of "would you change his swing" is a challenging one
[/quote]

Only on WRX would people ruminate over Rory changing his swing. When this guy, who admittedly has a good looking swing, does [i]anything[/i] in the realms of what RM is doing, I'll take notice. For now, it's a good looking swing....in a sea of good looking swings.

Is he straight hitter, though? That's pretty one dimensional.
Does he 'curve' the ball, though? That's pretty one dimensional.

And also lol @ the comments inferring RM 'could' be great. Some people need a reality check.
[/quote]
Again you obviously can't phathom the difference that the best ballstrikers and best swings aren't necessarily #1 in the world. There are at least 50 guys on tour who hit it as good or better than Rory. He is currently the most complete player. I don't need a reality check, but maybe you should take of the blinders. Rory has a coach and has changed his swing in the last few years. To think he doesn't want to improve is laughable.

How good a player are you? Who have you taught? How many players have you been around in very close proximity?

The funny thing to many might be that someone who isn't an accomplished golfer or teacher telling someone who works with and has spent time with some of the best players in the world, including current and future Hall of Famers, that you know better than them what it takes to be a great golfer. Btw I've had multiple players double the number of cuts made previously in one year, improve from 100-40th in GIR up to top 5 on tour in GIR, and have had two players in the last two years go from Web.com to PGA Tour. I might have a clue of what it takes to get better at that level. Im certain there are quite a few that know more than me but I'm also fairly certain it's not you, no offense.

[jtotto83]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1351721761' post='5874399']
[quote name='Empros' timestamp='1351720433' post='5874317']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1351698589' post='5872425']The question of "would you change his swing" is a challenging one
[/quote]

Only on WRX would people ruminate over Rory changing his swing. When this guy, who admittedly has a good looking swing, does [i]anything[/i] in the realms of what RM is doing, I'll take notice. For now, it's a good looking swing....in a sea of good looking swings.

Is he straight hitter, though? That's pretty one dimensional.
Does he 'curve' the ball, though? That's pretty one dimensional.

And also lol @ the comments inferring RM 'could' be great. Some people need a reality check.
[/quote]
Again you obviously can't phathom the difference that the best ballstrikers and best swings aren't necessarily #1 in the world. There are at least 50 guys on tour who hit it as good or better than Rory. He is currently the most complete player. I don't need a reality check, but maybe you should take of the blinders. Rory has a coach and has changed his swing in the last few years. To think he doesn't want to improve is laughable.

How good a player are you? Who have you taught? How many players have you been around in very close proximity?

The funny thing to many might be that someone who isn't an accomplished golfer or teacher telling someone who works with and has spent time with some of the best players in the world, including current and future Hall of Famers, that you know better than them what it takes to be a great golfer. Btw I've had multiple players double the number of cuts made previously in one year, improve from 100-40th in GIR up to top 5 on tour in GIR, and have had two players in the last two years go from Web.com to PGA Tour. I might have a clue of what it takes to get better at that level. Im certain there are quite a few that know more than me but I'm also fairly certain it's not you, no offense.
[/quote]

Welcome to Golfwrx and Internet instruction. Same frustration I have with people who give all sorts of advice in a thread but will demonstrate later they have limited golf skill, no formal training to teach, and really are just rehashing something someone else typed or that they read in a magazine or on another site.

[Empros]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1351721761' post='5874399']There are at least 50 guys on tour who hit it as good or better than Rory.
[/quote]

Excuse me one moment...





Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Wait....


Hhahahahahahahaha

[swanry30]

can't wait to see HAHN next year - and more information/insight from you DC. some great stuff. i would love to meet you in person for a session or two!

if you ever make it up to the nw lets hook up.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1351723915' post='5874555']
can't wait to see HAHN next year - and more information/insight from you DC. some great stuff. i would love to meet you in person for a session or two!

if you ever make it up to the nw lets hook up.
[/quote]
Will let you know. Traveling and teaching is tough, I tried doing it for a few years. Lately I've just tried to make it affordable and accommodating for people to come to me. It's a lot cheaper for the student (cost is zero instead of thousands) and more convenient for me.

I'm trying to post more now that I'm traveling lesS

[PingG10guy]

...Okay this is likely a CP variation he was trying to display, but I have to ask...what tha hell is he looking at? Can we get some technical description on what/why there is a great differentiation from the eye tilts or aimpoint is(mac o'grady stuff I have seen/read from around the way) as seen in the pics:

[attachment=1404561:JH P3.jpg]
[attachment=1404563:JH P6.jpg]



It seems like there is a muscle tension in play here or some sort of feel and I'm really curious on how this sort of translation in the upper half comes into play and what it's purpose is?....

[Doc Mcstuffins]

Iteach...not to get off topic, but just one simple question. James' swing looks effortless. Any thoughts of what his grip pressure is like, or even simpler what do you tell your students? Thanks...

[Pure745]

[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1351723915' post='5874555']
can't wait to see HAHN next year - and more information/insight from you DC. some great stuff. i would love to meet you in person for a session or two!

if you ever make it up to the nw lets hook up.
[/quote]

What you [i]should[/i] do is ease up on the tricep extension and rope pull downs.. and get out to SoCal for the next time DC is out here. Not only does he know a ton about the golf swing.. but he's also a great player and sometimes a funny dude. I'm dead serious.. We should set this up.

[kenwiggins11]

[quote name='Pure745' timestamp='1351743255' post='5876133']
[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1351723915' post='5874555']
can't wait to see HAHN next year - and more information/insight from you DC. some great stuff. i would love to meet you in person for a session or two!

if you ever make it up to the nw lets hook up.
[/quote]

What you [i]should[/i] do is ease up on the tricep extension and rope pull downs.. and get out to SoCal for the next time DC is out here. Not only does he know a ton about the golf swing.. but he's also a great player and sometimes a funny dude. I'm dead serious.. We should set this up.
[/quote]

+1 bicep curls only, oh and bench! Swan great thread enjoying the info shared. Thanks to everyone for your insight. Looking forward to watching Hahn on tour... I am liking his swing big time almost as good as Robert Rocks. Of Course Rock wins contest for best mop.

[grumpy84]

lol when i saw his swing for the first time during this years web.com championship that was the first thing i said to myself...best swing ever. Powerful, great tempo and just looks effortless. I replayed a long iron swing more times than I could possibly count. Just an insanely nice action.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='joeclothing' timestamp='1351742905' post='5876103']
Iteach...not to get off topic, but just one simple question. James' swing looks effortless. Any thoughts of what his grip pressure is like, or even simpler what do you tell your students? Thanks...
[/quote]
Grip pressure isn't light. I'd guess it should be a 7 or 8 out of 10 for most people

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1351728426' post='5874873']
...Okay this is likely a CP variation he was trying to display, but I have to ask...what tha hell is he looking at? Can we get some technical description on what/why there is a great differentiation from the eye tilts or aimpoint is(mac o'grady stuff I have seen/read from around the way) as seen in the pics:

[attachment=1404561:JH P3.jpg]
[attachment=1404563:JH P6.jpg]



It seems like there is a muscle tension in play here or some sort of feel and I'm really curious on how this sort of translation in the upper half comes into play and what it's purpose is?....
[/quote]
If anything his head tends to do the Lorena Ochoa shift his eyeline right and gets path too out at times with driver. He is working on eyeline while working on staying in tilts longer.

[hoganfan924]

Dan, do you have any video of James that was taken before you started working with him? Would love to compare

[swanry30]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1351775732' post='5876869']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1351728426' post='5874873']
...Okay this is likely a CP variation he was trying to display, but I have to ask...what tha hell is he looking at? Can we get some technical description on what/why there is a great differentiation from the eye tilts or aimpoint is(mac o'grady stuff I have seen/read from around the way) as seen in the pics:

[attachment=1404561:JH P3.jpg]
[attachment=1404563:JH P6.jpg]



It seems like there is a muscle tension in play here or some sort of feel and I'm really curious on how this sort of translation in the upper half comes into play and what it's purpose is?....
[/quote]
If anything his head tends to do the Lorena Ochoa shift his eyeline right and gets path too out at times with driver. He is working on eyeline while working on staying in tilts longer.
[/quote]

how do you recommend staying in tilts for longer? pretty sure that 99% could benefit from doing this. i know that when i was working with JASON OWENS - we really were trying to do this. difficult said and done for that matter. the question that i always asked was "what is causing me to come out of my angles/tilt?" not tilting enough? for me it is easier when someone tells me - coming out of your tilts is a biproduct of these two things. lets work on those....

[iteachgolf]

Has to do with the rate you turn and tilt. Right shoulder moves in 3d. For some it's not enough tilt and others tilt too fast. It's going to be player dependant. It's just not down and it's just not out. It's down, out, and forward and their rates in relation to each other.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1351775937' post='5876885']
Dan, do you have any video of James that was taken before you started working with him? Would love to compare
[/quote]
Not really. There are some videos of changes he has made recently on my YouTube. We have been more friends over the last two years and it's been very informal. Talk golf swing and he'd ask my thoughts on what he was feeling. Only been more formal recently. He's always had a solid swing just needed a lil bit of direction. His swing was more under with swing direction more right and could only hit it really high. Focused on making things more neutral so he can hit it high and low as well as work it both ways. Basically just maturing as a player and really focusing on swinging like the best version of James Hahn and not trying to be someone else. He likes to tinker and sometimes just needs someone to shake him and say "wtf are doing"

[Scottk]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1351775591' post='5876857']
[quote name='joeclothing' timestamp='1351742905' post='5876103']
Iteach...not to get off topic, but just one simple question. James' swing looks effortless. Any thoughts of what his grip pressure is like, or even simpler what do you tell your students? Thanks...
[/quote]
Grip pressure isn't light. I'd guess it should be a 7 or 8 out of 10 for most people
[/quote]

Are you saying James Hahn is 7/8 out of 10 or most people should be a 7/8 out of 10? Thanks.

[iteachgolf]

Never asked him so I can't answer for him but it's not light.