So i'm watching Larry Nelson

[Jim Waldron]

As far as the part about push vs pulls and draws vs slices, he did qualify his statement that a ball back in your stance will likely lead to a push and a ball forward to a pull by saying "with your normal swing" which I took to mean clubface square to the path. He said it twice so I think he was intending to convey that as an important point. But - he did not specifcally say what precisely he meant by "normal swing". We can only assume that a great ballstriker like Larry would mean with the face square to the path. I am sure if he was asked that he would agree that was his intended meaning. I don't think he was saying that the ball back will create a slice and the ball forward a hook.

As to my earlier point, I checked again tonight, and he clearly squats about a half inch with his knees and then shifts his weight back toward his heels right before he starts his backswing, looks like his unconscious trigger and I am pretty sure he is not aware of that shift to get his weight back in balance in the middle of his feet.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1358402148' post='6244401']
As far as the part about push vs pulls and draws vs slices, he did qualify his statement that a ball back in your stance will likely lead to a push and a ball forward to a pull by saying "with your normal swing" which I took to mean clubface square to the path. He said it twice so I think he was intending to convey that as an important point. But - he did not specifcally say what precisely he meant by "normal swing". We can only assume that a great ballstriker like Larry would mean with the face square to the path. I am sure if he was asked that he would agree that was his intended meaning. I don't think he was saying that the ball back will create a slice and the ball forward a hook.

As to my earlier point, I checked again tonight, and he clearly squats about a half inch with his knees and then shifts his weight back toward his heels right before he starts his backswing, looks like his unconscious trigger and I am pretty sure he is not aware of that shift to get his weight back in balance in the middle of his feet.
[/quote]
But as you know if by normal he meant the same swing than it wouldn't push at all. Just draw. I would assume normal to be square to path, I'd assume normal means the same swing with just ball positioned changed. Either way tour players are generally mediocre at best teachers and tend to leave a lot left to be desired.

[Hawkeye77]

I thought he specifically said the club face was square, and intended to demonstrate the tendency to push or pull, if the position was a little off. I guess I didn't see the big error, but I'm no expert. I'll study the posts above and try and sort it out.

On the plus side, for some (?), Martin referred to the D-plane tonight.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='HAWKEYE77' timestamp='1358402617' post='6244461']
I thought he specifically said the club face was square, and intended to demonstrate the tendency to push or pull, if the position was a little off. I guess I didn't see the big error, but I'm no expert. I'll study the posts above and try and sort it out.

On the plus side, for some (?), Martin referred to the D-plane tonight.
[/quote]
Square to what?

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358403250' post='6244525']
[quote name='HAWKEYE77' timestamp='1358402617' post='6244461']
I thought he specifically said the club face was square, and intended to demonstrate the tendency to push or pull, if the position was a little off. I guess I didn't see the big error, but I'm no expert. I'll study the posts above and try and sort it out.

On the plus side, for some (?), Martin referred to the D-plane tonight.
[/quote]
Square to what?
[/quote]

That's apparently the rub.

[eagle1997]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358399053' post='6244083']
Didn't watch show and don't watch golf instructional shows. No point for me to do so. But did he not say that if the ball is inside your left heel the ball will start to the right and will cause most people to slice? Did the OP lie about what was said?

I don't need to watch the show to know that the above simply isn't true and in fact moving it back would make it more likely to draw if face angle at address is left unchanged.
[/quote]

i appreciate what you are trying to say, as well as your knowledge, but seriously you sound like an incredible (_____). just wanted to point that out.

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]Yes , sounds unecessarily jerkish. [/color]

[color=#800080]I [/color][color=#800080]prefer to draw it with ball a little forward , since it gets square to ball then starts to release. And a little back face is a little open and it fades. I see if i play it well forward , face is closing and it pulls left , basically what peoples say he was saying. I also turn shoulders more for a draw ( a little more open in stance for a fade) and never close stance for a draw (more square in stance to a little open). [/color]

[color=#800080]If i move ball back to draw or close stance , i feels needs to release hands early and i hook thems.[/color]

[color=#800080]A low draw , i will plays the balls back and keep weight on left side.[/color]

[color=#800080]Personally nots sure how if ball a little back , it woulds draw. For me i sees it as club is not back to square facing balls and ball will fade , or blocked right , unless forcing it shut earlier. I understand how it draws for me , near back foots. Since weight on left foots , makes the squared up portion much farther back.[/color]

[color=#800080]I have taken *holding off* finish on my swings , so fading from forward ball positions does nots work for me as i am already releasing club faces after it was square to the ball.[/color]

[color=#800080]This works for me and i gets nice ball flights . The *normal* way are weak flights as i start to use hands or arms to make club do somethings. [/color]

[Wedgefromhere]

I turned it off the first time it aired when he said your weight is to be on the balls of your feet. It aired again last night and I was doing some stuff on my laptop, so I just left it on. He goes on to say that you should hold the lag as long as possible......Monte would bust this guy up.

[airjammer]

I give iteach a pass...I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to keep having great players spew wrong info that people believe just because they were great. I can catch a fly ball in baseball but couldn't tell you how my brain calculated where I need to be to catch it.

[WRXClarky]

I watched it last night and did not notice any reference to hooks or slices based on ball position. What I did take from his video was this. By moving the ball back in your stance (he did an extreme example) your clubface would not yet be square at contact and it caused the push right. Then when moving it way forward (again extreme) the clubface was already closing at contact and pulled it left. No curvature, just straight push and pull. He then went on to say that each individual can then find where their straight shot (square at impact) could be between these two extremes. He mentioned a second arc (clubhead arc) runs through the impact zone and each individual needs to find where their ball position should be for square contact thru the impact zone.

This is what I took from it, I may be interpreting it incorrectly, but that is what I took from his talk.

[WRXClarky]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358346000' post='6238781']
If the ball is further back the path will be more to the right and if the ball is further up the path will be more to the left. Neither has a thing to do with where the ball starts. If the face were square to the target at impact the ball back would draw and the ball up would cut. Moving the ball back makes it the most likely to draw and up makes it the most likely to cut.
[/quote]
Looking at this post by iteachgolf, without him seeing the show it looks like he has it bang on anyway. Larry did mention to hit the draw that he would move it back a bit, and to hit a cut move it forward. He said this and demonstrated both as he started the ball left and cut it back, and then started the ball right and drew it back. So, basically when Larry wanted to work the ball, he used the ball position to start it out in the direction he wanted and then used the spin to bring it back, whether cut or draw.

[iteachgolf]

This will be the last I post here as I'm a jerk/a** and people don't seem to want my help.

The only way the face would be more open if the ball was back is if as you moved the ball back you also had the face more open at address. If when you moved the ball back you set the clubface square to the target, making it effectively more closed to the resultant path, it would arrive at the same position as when the ball was forward. To see this setup normal with a square face, now move the ball back two inches in your stance and re address the ball also with a square face. From that setup move the clubhead to old address position, the face will now be closed and this is why moving it back wont make the ball start noticeably more right. You can also see it by drawing an arc on a sheet of paper and holding a pen square to target and then simply move the pen up and back on the arc without rotating the pen. The pen becomes more closed to the arc as ot moves back and more open to the arc as it moves forward even though its actually relation to the target is unchanged. By keeping the face square to the target the ball will not start more right, it'll start in the same place (with driver path has very little impact on initial direction) and simply curve more left. If you moved ball up and kept face square to target it'd start at virtually the exact same place and fade more. The face doesn't just stay square to the arc and only way moving the ball back will create a block, assuming you make the same swing, is if the face is opened as ball is moved back in your stance.

My whole point is to help and in the real world someone will listen to this and hit a straight to pull draw and move the ball back in their stance per this advice and it'd go more left. Opposite is true when a high handicap will hit some push cuts, and will try this advice and move the ball up in their stance in hopes of it starting more left and will just cut it more missing the ball more right.

[GAL007]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1358403862' post='6244597']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358399053' post='6244083']
Didn't watch show and don't watch golf instructional shows. No point for me to do so. But did he not say that if the ball is inside your left heel the ball will start to the right and will cause most people to slice? Did the OP lie about what was said?

I don't need to watch the show to know that the above simply isn't true and in fact moving it back would make it more likely to draw if face angle at address is left unchanged.
[/quote]

i appreciate what you are trying to say, as well as your knowledge, but seriously you sound like an incredible (_____). just wanted to point that out.
[/quote][quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1358410381' post='6244895']
[color=#800080]Yes , sounds unecessarily jerkish. [/color]

[color=#800080]I [/color][color=#800080]prefer to draw it with ball a little forward , since it gets square to ball then starts to release. And a little back face is a little open and it fades. I see if i play it well forward , face is closing and it pulls left , basically what peoples say he was saying. I also turn shoulders more for a draw ( a little more open in stance for a fade) and never close stance for a draw (more square in stance to a little open). [/color]

[color=#800080]If i move ball back to draw or close stance , i feels needs to release hands early and i hook thems.[/color]

[color=#800080]A low draw , i will plays the balls back and keep weight on left side.[/color]

[color=#800080]Personally nots sure how if ball a little back , it woulds draw. For me i sees it as club is not back to square facing balls and ball will fade , or blocked right , unless forcing it shut earlier. I understand how it draws for me , near back foots. Since weight on left foots , makes the squared up portion much farther back.[/color]

[color=#800080]I have taken *holding off* finish on my swings , so fading from forward ball positions does nots work for me as i am already releasing club faces after it was square to the ball.[/color]

[color=#800080]This works for me and i gets nice ball flights . The *normal* way are weak flights as i start to use hands or arms to make club do somethings. [/color]
[/quote]


I think it needs to be kept in mind that it is extremely difficult to interpret tone from typed words on a forum. Larry Nelson was an incredible and underrated player and does not receive even a fraction of the credit he deserves. However, that does not necessarily mean that what he says about the golf swing is 100% accurate. Most times a high level player is relating to the audience his or her "feels" or what they thought they were doing in their golf swing or set up, etc. Often, what the player felt like or thought they were doing is not really what is happening. That doesn't mean Larry Nelson wasn't an incredible player and it doesn't mean that he knows nothing about the golf swing. It just means it is his perception of what is going on.

What Dan is telling you is the pure science of what will really happen if a player keeps all things the same in their swing but tries the different ball positions that Mr Nelson described. I know Dan, so that may affect my view of what he was saying, but I have a hard time seeing how he could be coming off as an incredible (_____) or "unnecessarily jerkish". Dan is just very straight forward in sharing his knowledge ( and it's very generous of him to do so ) in order to try and help people. There has been an incredible amount of misinformation doled out about the golf swing over the years ( a lot of it coming from people with very good intentions ) and Dan is one of the guys who is trying to clear things up for anyone that wants to learn and improve. The site is very lucky to have extremely knowledgeable people like Dan and many others that give freely of their time and knowledge. There is a reason that many, many people who play the game for a living trust and work with Dan. To put it bluntly, he knows his s*#t.

I think we all need to take the time to ask for further clarification if we are confused by or disagree with something a teacher says rather than to assume they are coming from a malicious place. If we're not careful, we're likely to alienate and run off very smart teachers from the site. I doubt that's what the vast majority of the members want, I know I would hate to see that happen

Chris

[Jim Waldron]

Dan - your explanation is very good and makes sense, and about a difficult subject to discuss with real clarity, even in person and drawing chalk lines on the ground. The point Larry was trying to make about push v pull, is that IF the face was square to the path - NOT the target line at address - then face and path would be identical and a push would result with ball way back and pull with ball way forward. With ball way back, the clubhead is not in fact resting on the Target Line at address but on a point on the arc inside the Target Line. If the face was 90 degrees to that point or open to the actual Target Line, then ball back will cause a push. I think that is what Larry meant by "normal swing", I think he knows that if he had the ball back and the face angle adjusted to be square to the Target Line, it would be closed to the arc point the clubhead rests on at address.

This whole debate once again shows how both sides of the Old vs New Ball Flight Laws have valid points, but the confusion will always reign when one fails to understand that face angle is a subset of the clubhead but the clubhead is not a subset of the face angle.

[nbg352]

[quote name='toadlake34' timestamp='1358401380' post='6244329']
I only saw bits and pieces and didn't hear the dialogue, but it seemed like he was hitting more of pulls with the ball left and pushes with the ball right with the face square to the path
[/quote]
Some teachers around here seem to be so good at it they can't learn anything from a top pro. What I'd like to know, is this...If Larry Nelson doesn't know what he's doing, how'd he win 3 majors? Did he not learn anything about the swing from his own teachers? Why wouldn't a wrx teacher watch another professional teach? There is always something positive to be learned from those who do it best.

[MonteScheinblum]

There are three things at work here.

1. The common theme in the golf media where a great player is imparting his feels and what worked for him that aren't necessarily correct or even what he actually does.

2. Those feels are not applicable to most of the public. If I posted on this board what I try to do when I compete in a long drive contest, everyone who followed that would hopefully quit golf before they injured themselves.

3. I always listen to tour players when they talk about playing golf and learn as much as possible. I also learn many of the misconceptions my students/clients are going to show up with.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358436947' post='6246041']
This will be the last I post here as I'm a jerk/a** and people don't seem to want my help.

[color=#EE82EE]Hope not.[/color]

My whole point is to help and in the real world someone will listen to this and hit a straight to pull draw and move the ball back in their stance per this advice and it'd go more left. Opposite is true when a high handicap will hit some push cuts, and will try this advice and move the ball up in their stance in hopes of it starting more left and will just cut it more missing the ball more right.
[/quote]

I agree, I have seen this happen many times.

[nbg352]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1358456292' post='6248027']
There are three things at work here.

1. The common theme in the golf media where a great player is imparting his feels and what worked for him that aren't necessarily correct or even what he actually does.

2. Those feels are not applicable to most of the public. If I posted on this board what I try to do when I compete in a long drive contest, everyone who followed that would hopefully quit golf before they injured themselves.

3. I always listen to tour players when they talk about playing golf and learn as much as possible. I also learn many of the misconceptions my students/clients are going to show up with.
[/quote]
Rants are usually general in nature...shotgun approach. There are always exceptions to the theme of many a rant. I believe you are the exception in mine.

[jcjohns24]

[quote name='GAL007' timestamp='1358442470' post='6246607']
[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1358403862' post='6244597']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358399053' post='6244083']
Didn't watch show and don't watch golf instructional shows. No point for me to do so. But did he not say that if the ball is inside your left heel the ball will start to the right and will cause most people to slice? Did the OP lie about what was said?

I don't need to watch the show to know that the above simply isn't true and in fact moving it back would make it more likely to draw if face angle at address is left unchanged.
[/quote]

i appreciate what you are trying to say, as well as your knowledge, but seriously you sound like an incredible (_____). just wanted to point that out.
[/quote][quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1358410381' post='6244895']
[color=#800080]Yes , sounds unecessarily jerkish. [/color]

[color=#800080]I [/color][color=#800080]prefer to draw it with ball a little forward , since it gets square to ball then starts to release. And a little back face is a little open and it fades. I see if i play it well forward , face is closing and it pulls left , basically what peoples say he was saying. I also turn shoulders more for a draw ( a little more open in stance for a fade) and never close stance for a draw (more square in stance to a little open). [/color]

[color=#800080]If i move ball back to draw or close stance , i feels needs to release hands early and i hook thems.[/color]

[color=#800080]A low draw , i will plays the balls back and keep weight on left side.[/color]

[color=#800080]Personally nots sure how if ball a little back , it woulds draw. For me i sees it as club is not back to square facing balls and ball will fade , or blocked right , unless forcing it shut earlier. I understand how it draws for me , near back foots. Since weight on left foots , makes the squared up portion much farther back.[/color]

[color=#800080]I have taken *holding off* finish on my swings , so fading from forward ball positions does nots work for me as i am already releasing club faces after it was square to the ball.[/color]

[color=#800080]This works for me and i gets nice ball flights . The *normal* way are weak flights as i start to use hands or arms to make club do somethings. [/color]
[/quote]


I think it needs to be kept in mind that it is extremely difficult to interpret tone from typed words on a forum. Larry Nelson was an incredible and underrated player and does not receive even a fraction of the credit he deserves. However, that does not necessarily mean that what he says about the golf swing is 100% accurate. Most times a high level player is relating to the audience his or her "feels" or what they thought they were doing in their golf swing or set up, etc. Often, what the player felt like or thought they were doing is not really what is happening. That doesn't mean Larry Nelson wasn't an incredible player and it doesn't mean that he knows nothing about the golf swing. It just means it is his perception of what is going on.

What Dan is telling you is the pure science of what will really happen if a player keeps all things the same in their swing but tries the different ball positions that Mr Nelson described. I know Dan, so that may affect my view of what he was saying, but I have a hard time seeing how he could be coming off as an incredible (_____) or "unnecessarily jerkish". Dan is just very straight forward in sharing his knowledge ( and it's very generous of him to do so ) in order to try and help people. There has been an incredible amount of misinformation doled out about the golf swing over the years ( a lot of it coming from people with very good intentions ) and Dan is one of the guys who is trying to clear things up for anyone that wants to learn and improve. The site is very lucky to have extremely knowledgeable people like Dan and many others that give freely of their time and knowledge. There is a reason that many, many people who play the game for a living trust and work with Dan. To put it bluntly, he knows his s*#t.

I think we all need to take the time to ask for further clarification if we are confused by or disagree with something a teacher says rather than to assume they are coming from a malicious place. If we're not careful, we're likely to alienate and run off very smart teachers from the site. I doubt that's what the vast majority of the members want, I know I would hate to see that happen

Chris
[/quote]

This.

Larry Nelson is no doubt a great player and he may well know more about the golf swing than this segment was capable of showing. He may also be a guy that just knows his swing, how to play and how to compete. I know plenty of these types who are accomplished golfers but I wouldn't want swing instruction from them. Not saying that you couldn't learn things from them that would make you better, as getting better isn't always about the swing itself.

I too agree that Dan knows his stuff and we're lucky to have him on the forum.

[thekru]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358436947' post='6246041']
This will be the last I post here as I'm a jerk/a** and people don't seem to want my help.

I enjoy your posts and have learned a lot, but give me break, a little over sensitive I think. And sorry, but I have to agree with eagle1997 on this one, you did come off as kind of a d!ck on this one, and you have come off this way before. Your a golf instructor, not curing cancer. That being said, I like your stuff.

The only way the face would be more open if the ball was back is if as you moved the ball back you also had the face more open at address.
[/quote]
I enjoy your posts and have learned a lot, but give me break, a little over sensitive I think. And sorry, but I have to agree with eagle1997 on this one, you did come off as kind of a d!ck on this one, and you have come off this way before. Your a golf instructor, not curing cancer. That being said, I like your stuff.

You can set the club square to your target at address, but during the downswing not it return it to that position. Face is then square to path, straight push.

[Obee]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358389332' post='6243015']
[quote name='wolfpack' timestamp='1358388117' post='6242887']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1358358910' post='6240139']
Nelson is one of those guys missed in most people's thoughts for whatever reason. MANY people would find a lot of things to like about what Larry says.
Then again only on WRX would you find a man who has won 3 Majors being openly accused of not knowing what he is doing.
[/quote]

You said it TDO
[/quote]

He knows how to play golf. And he knows what he feels like is happening. What he feels is happening isn't necessarily so. Again moving the ball back makes it more likely to draw, not slice. Moving the ball more up makes the ball more likely to fade, not draw. The clubface is primary determinate of start direction not the path of the club, especially with driver.
[/quote]

Moving the ball back in the stance DOES make the ball START to the right, and moving the ball forward in the stance DOES make the ball START to the left (for most golfers).

It's what happens after the ball takes off that matters, though. If, by playing the ball back, we are able to draw it, then we've accomplished our goal. The ball has started out to the right of our target and come back to the left. vice versa for the forward ball position and fade....

[KevCarter]

I'm hoping Dan changes his mind. One of the most talented teachers ever to post here. It's a shame these threads have to come down to such petty arguments that mostly revolve around semantics, and trying to prove to each other how much we know.

[Finbarr Saunders]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1358403862' post='6244597']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358399053' post='6244083']
Didn't watch show and don't watch golf instructional shows. No point for me to do so. But did he not say that if the ball is inside your left heel the ball will start to the right and will cause most people to slice? Did the OP lie about what was said?

I don't need to watch the show to know that the above simply isn't true and in fact moving it back would make it more likely to draw if face angle at address is left unchanged.
[/quote]

i appreciate what you are trying to say, as well as your knowledge, but seriously you sound like an incredible (_____). just wanted to point that out.
[/quote]


[i]Harsh, unnecessary and [b]bang out of order[/b][/i]

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]So is calling person liar and coming across condescending, unless misunderstood words. Does nots matter who you are or what you may know , that is rude. Peoples have right to *call out* this person if they feel it necessary or question their methods.[/color]

[color=#800080]Do whats you do , because you wants to . There is *sharing* what works for you or students , and thens there is ego typing , tellings peoples you know best basically. Debating , then threatening to leave a internet website seems silly all arounds. There will never be a *best* instructor . Too many ways to teach same ideas and too many students needings different attentions.[/color]

[color=#800080]Nots to mention it is the internet. Somebody will always try to *disagree* no matters what. Seen this in forums while playing MMORPGs . Sour grapes never taste much good.[/color]

[AFcelica]

Yes I believe he was implying that the face is square to the path on the show. Either that or he doesn't understand that face has more influence on the starting direction than path. Neither of which would surprise me

[AFcelica]

Yes I believe he was implying that the face is square to the path on the show. Either that or he doesn't understand that face has more influence on the starting direction than path. Neither of which would surprise me

[KDMullins]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1358476711' post='6249943']
[color=#800080]So is calling person liar and coming across condescending, unless misunderstood words. Does nots matter who you are or what you may know , that is rude. Peoples have right to *call out* this person if they feel it necessary or question their methods.[/color]

[color=#800080]Do whats you do , because you wants to . There is *sharing* what works for you or students , and thens there is ego typing , tellings peoples you know best basically. Debating , then threatening to leave a internet website seems silly all arounds. There will never be a *best* instructor . Too many ways to teach same ideas and too many students needings different attentions.[/color]

[color=#800080]Nots to mention it is the internet. Somebody will always try to *disagree* no matters what. Seen this in forums while playing MMORPGs . Sour grapes never taste much good.[/color]
[/quote]

This thread's only two pages long...you need to look back and see who was condescending. Dan, who is by all accounts an outstanding instructor, teacher of PGA Tour and other major tour players, and an asset to GolfWRX was trying to help correct any misunderstandings that were being espoused by others.

These two posts took the thread off track.

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1358358910' post='6240139']
Nelson is one of those guys missed in most people's thoughts for whatever reason. MANY people would find a lot of things to like about what Larry says.
Then again only on WRX would you find a man who has won 3 Majors being openly accused of not knowing what he is doing.
[/quote]


[quote name='tradekid' timestamp='1358398623' post='6244041']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1358389332' post='6243015']
[quote name='wolfpack' timestamp='1358388117' post='6242887']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1358358910' post='6240139']
Nelson is one of those guys missed in most people's thoughts for whatever reason. MANY people would find a lot of things to like about what Larry says.
Then again only on WRX would you find a man who has won 3 Majors being openly accused of not knowing what he is doing.
[/quote]

You said it TDO
[/quote]

He knows how to play golf. And he knows what he feels like is happening. What he feels is happening isn't necessarily so. Again moving the ball back makes it more likely to draw, not slice. Moving the ball more up makes the ball more likely to fade, not draw. The clubface is primary determinate of start direction not the path of the club, especially with driver.
[/quote]

Did you actually watch the show, or are you relying on what people are describing on this thread?
[/quote]

Both were passive-aggresssive, condescending and disrespectful...neither were made by Dan, but rather, directed AT him.

[goobers80]

[quote]
[color=#0000CD]Didn't watch show and don't watch golf instructional shows. No point for me to do so. [/color]But did he not say that if the ball is inside your left heel the ball will start to the right and will cause most people to slice? [color=#0000CD]Did the OP lie about what was said[/color]?

I don't need to watch the show to know that the above simply isn't true and in fact moving it back would make it more likely to draw if face angle at address is left unchanged.
[/quote]

[color=#800080]Yet it is okay he calls somebody out to be lying ? That is *respectful* ? And disagree but that first sentence comes across condescending to me. Basically dismissed the points of this topic in my mind. I see no reason to add those words in. Defending a person because of who he is , does nots make that person better looking. Nor does his *credentials* make it okay to be rude in first place. It was a topic on Larry Nelson. Sort of nots understanding how you think how you do. Yes , just do not understand how *NT* minds work.[/color]

[color=#800080]Probably shoulds watch a show before trying to disprove it or *correct* it for the masses. Goings by word of mouth is never smart idea.[/color]

[AFcelica]

To be fair he didnt watch the show but was still spot on with that comment. He didnt say people slice because they play the ball too far back. He said it starts to the right... and I wouldnt expect an instructor to watch golf channel instruction but he was answering a question as to whether or not he had watched the show. Perhaps he worded it in an impolite manner to the hyper-sensitive but its nothing that should have derailed the thread into this nonsense

[KDMullins]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1358479029' post='6250141']
[quote]
[color=#0000CD]Didn't watch show and don't watch golf instructional shows. No point for me to do so. [/color]But did he not say that if the ball is inside your left heel the ball will start to the right and will cause most people to slice? [color=#0000CD]Did the OP lie about what was said[/color]?

I don't need to watch the show to know that the above simply isn't true and in fact moving it back would make it more likely to draw if face angle at address is left unchanged.
[/quote]

[color=#800080]Yet it is okay he calls somebody out to be lying ? That is *respectful* ? And disagree but that first sentence comes across condescending to me. Basically dismissed the points of this topic in my mind. I see no reason to add those words in. Defending a person because of who he is , does nots make that person better looking. Nor does his *credentials* make it okay to be rude in first place. It was a topic on Larry Nelson. Sort of nots understanding how you think how you do. Yes , just do not understand how *NT* minds work.[/color]

[color=#800080]Probably shoulds watch a show before trying to disprove it or *correct* it for the masses. Goings by word of mouth is never smart idea.[/color]
[/quote]

He didn't say anybody was lying. He was replying to a post where somebody insinuated that you had to have watched the show to respond to the posts in this thread or that the OP miscommunicated what Nelson was trying to say. Either way, Dan was responded to the point made in this thread, not the show.

I'm not defending Dan because of who he is. I don't know Dan any more than I know you, but with all due respect, I value his opinion on the golf swing more than all but two or three others that post on GolfWRX. I only point those things out as evidence that the guy knows what he's talking about, so I actively look for and read his posts. Unfortunately, nearly every time he posts on these forums, there's always two or three big shots that either (a) don't like Dan; (b) don't like what he teaches; or (c) want to try to exhibit some knowledge they think they have for reasons I don't fully comprehend; and the thread turns into a mess. It gets old.