Today's Tour Swing

[Hstead]

I have been watching a lot of golf lately, including the European and Austrail-Asian Tours, and the thing that strikes me more than anything now is how many of these guys have incredible golf swings. I have been watching golf I guess for 30 years, and it seems especially over the past 5 years there are so many guys with swings that I feel are so close to being perfect.

 

I remember when you had a Tour with swings that consisted of Couples, Daly, Lehman, Lietzke, Crenshaw, Faldo, Montgomery, Langer, Stadler, Colbert, Watson, Floyd, Trevino, Norman, Strange, Nelson, Gilder, Tewell, Hoch, Pooley, just to name a FRCATION. Not one of them looked alike and some not even similar at all. And these guys played not that long ago. I remember when Purtzer and Elkington had the "best swings on tour" voted by their peers.

 

Look at the swings today. There are so many swings that make those guys above look like hacks it isn't funny. Mahan, Woods, Scott, Olesen, Rose, Rory, Keegan, Sergio, Oosthuizan, Watney, Day, Cauley, Van Pelt, Woodland, Chucky III, (I am certain I missed a bunch) . I am by no means stating that the guys above are hacks by any means, I just think it is interesting to see how the game is changing, how swings are changing, and obviously how technology is impacting the game. Every tour now is loaded with guys that look like they swing on nearly the perfect plane, perfect setup, perfect balance, everything near perfect compared to some of the guys above. Of course, I wouldn't want to play any of the guys above for money, no way no how.

 

Thoughts?

[fairways4life]

There's pro's and con's of today's golf swings.

Advancements in teaching and knowledge of the swing and also technology like launch monitors and TrackMan have made for big strides in the modern golf swing.

On the other hand, pro golf (and especially today's junior golf) is bogged down with "robot swings" where everyone swings the club according to textbook. The guys who truly have homemade swings (Bubba, Furyk, Tommy Gainey, Boo Weekley, etc.) are dwindling.

One of the truly beautiful things about golf is how each person's swing is their own identity, their personality. You own your own swing. Your swing is you. That aspect of it is starting to disappear as more people develop clones of the modern golf swing.

[BMC]

There's no substitute for desire, determination, ability, and feel. Seve!

[mr smith]

If these modern swings are so great why hasnt scoring come down? Just cause these new swings look pretty doesnt make them efficient. I would take Trevino's swing over anybody out there when the pessure is really on. Scott has arguably the best swing out there according to popular opinion, but his pretty action didnt stand up under the closing stretch of a major. Pretty doesnt always mean perfect. What you want is an efficient, repeatable action, not a picture perfect swing with lots of moving parts.

[chri55]

All of these pretty robot swings are more prone to showing cracks under pressure. They take a lot more work to maintain. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[mgoelz]

Advances in video and analysis have led to a belief in the "best swing" and constant tinkering. In many ways it can lead to a more repeatable swing, but you have to be careful not to change someones idiosyncrasies based on how it looks rather than results. Get comfortable with your swing and go out and play.

[SPIF]

[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359233558' post='6303887']
[b]If these modern swings are so great why hasnt scoring come down?[/b] Just cause these new swings look pretty doesnt make them efficient. I would take Trevino's swing over anybody out there when the pessure is really on. Scott has arguably the best swing out there according to popular opinion, but his pretty action didnt stand up under the closing stretch of a major. Pretty doesnt always mean perfect. What you want is an efficient, repeatable action, not a picture perfect swing with lots of moving parts.
[/quote]

The same reason baseball, football, basketball, hockey, and soccer scores haven't gone up as the athletes become more proficient. Defense. Tour courses are so much more difficult now than they have ever been. I think it's interesting that here on GolfWRX, golf is the only sport immune to athletes becoming better in every facet at their respective game. High School seniors run, swim, throw, and kick harder, faster, and more accurately than Olympians did one hundred years ago. Doesn't it make sense golfers are more proficient now than in the past, and that all these kids with "perfect" swings, trackman, dedicated instruction based on science, etc. would be better than their predecessors? Look at the Korean model, and how they have become far and away the dominate country on the LPGA.

[Golfnutgalen]

PGA Tour average scoring has gone down, by more than a stroke since entire field records were recorded in 1980s.

1981-85: 72.08
86-90: 71.67
91-95: 71.35
96-2000: 71.32
01-05: 71.01
06-10: 70.99
11-12: 70.89

[legitimategolf]

[quote name='Golfnutgalen' timestamp='1359313802' post='6309211']
PGA Tour average scoring has gone down, by more than a stroke since entire field records were recorded in 1980s.
[/quote]

Yeah but still.

[Hstead]

[quote name='exquisitechip' timestamp='1359314817' post='6309315']
[quote name='Golfnutgalen' timestamp='1359313802' post='6309211']
PGA Tour average scoring has gone down, by more than a stroke since entire field records were recorded in 1980s.
[/quote]

Yeah but still.
[/quote]

Yeah, like I know you are but what am I? LOL

I hate when someone does that. People make a perfectly good rebuttal, and then some smarty pants has to come along with facts. Damn those facts. Not to mention these guys are playing much easier courses now days. They are so much wider, shorter, and the greens are way slower. NOT!

[Imp]

There's one swing that I've recently taking a liking to... Luke List's. It's just so fluid, yet powerful. Take a look if you have a chance.

[crestron-guru]

[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359233558' post='6303887']
If these modern swings are so great why hasnt scoring come down? Just cause these new swings look pretty doesnt make them efficient. I would take Trevino's swing over anybody out there when the pessure is really on. Scott has arguably the best swing out there according to popular opinion, but his pretty action didnt stand up under the closing stretch of a major. Pretty doesnt always mean perfect. What you want is an efficient, repeatable action, not a picture perfect swing with lots of moving parts.
[/quote]

Sheeesh calm down! At the end of the day success on tour is about how great you are mentally. Trevino had it mentally, Adam folds under pressure. The older people with hack swings will never like this topic.

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='Imp' timestamp='1359327744' post='6310661']
There's one swing that I've recently taking a liking to... Luke List's. It's just so fluid, yet powerful. Take a look if you have a chance.
[/quote]

I agree, LL's swing is awesome to watch. So much power, yet so smooth and easy.

[mr smith]

[quote name='crestron-guru' timestamp='1359332077' post='6311101']
[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359233558' post='6303887']
If these modern swings are so great why hasnt scoring come down? Just cause these new swings look pretty doesnt make them efficient. I would take Trevino's swing over anybody out there when the pessure is really on. Scott has arguably the best swing out there according to popular opinion, but his pretty action didnt stand up under the closing stretch of a major. Pretty doesnt always mean perfect. What you want is an efficient, repeatable action, not a picture perfect swing with lots of moving parts.
[/quote]

Sheeesh calm down! At the end of the day success on tour is about how great you are mentally. Trevino had it mentally, Adam folds under pressure. The older people with hack swings will never like this topic.
[/quote]I think you are over simplifying things. Missing a putt to win a major is folding under pressure, hitting hooks is a technique issue. A good swimg is one that can stand up under pressure, not produce hooks when you have beem striping it for the previous 70 holes. Tiger keeps changing his swing cause he thinks he doesnt own his swing, I think the same can be said for most modern swings. Tiger misses lots of fairways by a long way, that cant be put down to lack of talent, its poor technique. Look at this years Masters playoff between two guys with modern swings. Both missed the fairway by miles in the playoff, could you imagine Jack or Trevino or Watson or Hogan missing the fairway by that much in that situation?

[Hstead]

Trust me, I am a HUGE Jack fan, liked Trevino, Watson, etc but yes they missed fairways too. There is a reason Jack pulled out the 3 wood and 1 iron often, especially down the stretch in a major.

Sure Tiger can hit it off the map sometimes, but so has everyone that has ever played. I am not a Tiger fan, not now anyway. I used to really like Tiger, admired him for his work ethic, but after the "incident", I root against him.

I just really enjoy watching all of the these youngsters with these great looking swings. OHair, List, Henley, there are just so many I can't name even a fraction of them. I am not saying these guys are better than the previous generation, I am just making a statement about how different the Tour looks now compared to 20 years ago, and the differences are mostly from technology. I myself enjoy working on my swing as much as playing so I enjoy watching guys swing the club like I wish I could. I do not wish to swing like Daly or Furyk. I wish I hit the ball like they do and scored like they do, but I don't want to swing like they do.

[lumberman2462]

I think the reason that there are more uniform swings on tour is because of the more uniform teaching methods. Just as there are great numbers of good players there are a lot more teaching pros that went through some type of formal apprentice/learning process. Look around that the club pros and you will see very few "home grown" PGA members. Most all of them played college golf and had some type of similar structure as them came up the ranks. We've got half a dozen assistants at my club and every one of them play a pretty similar game. That's not even counting the Director of Golf and Head Pro - both of which took a shot at playing on some tour. More younger kids are exposed to teaching from a competent teaching pro than at any time in the history of the game. Like it or not - it must be working because there surely are a lot of good young players.

[crestron-guru]

[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359335140' post='6311411']
[quote name='crestron-guru' timestamp='1359332077' post='6311101']
[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359233558' post='6303887']
If these modern swings are so great why hasnt scoring come down? Just cause these new swings look pretty doesnt make them efficient. I would take Trevino's swing over anybody out there when the pessure is really on. Scott has arguably the best swing out there according to popular opinion, but his pretty action didnt stand up under the closing stretch of a major. Pretty doesnt always mean perfect. What you want is an efficient, repeatable action, not a picture perfect swing with lots of moving parts.
[/quote]

Sheeesh calm down! At the end of the day success on tour is about how great you are mentally. Trevino had it mentally, Adam folds under pressure. The older people with hack swings will never like this topic.
[/quote]I think you are over simplifying things. Missing a putt to win a major is folding under pressure, hitting hooks is a technique issue. A good swimg is one that can stand up under pressure, not produce hooks when you have beem striping it for the previous 70 holes. Tiger keeps changing his swing cause he thinks he doesnt own his swing, I think the same can be said for most modern swings. Tiger misses lots of fairways by a long way, that cant be put down to lack of talent, its poor technique. Look at this years Masters playoff between two guys with modern swings. Both missed the fairway by miles in the playoff, could you imagine Jack or Trevino or Watson or Hogan missing the fairway by that much in that situation?
[/quote]

I don't want to make anyone feel retarded..... But did you really just call bubba Watson a modern swing Hahaha... Seriously its not simplifying anything at all. It comes down to mental game. If it didn't Tom Watson would have won the British a few years back. I don't know how you can even argue this.

[jons1]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1359221265' post='6302913']
I have been watching a lot of golf lately, including the European and Austrail-Asian Tours, and the thing that strikes me more than anything now is how many of these guys have incredible golf swings. I have been watching golf I guess for 30 years, and it seems especially over the past 5 years there are so many guys with swings that I feel are so close to being perfect.

I remember when you had a Tour with swings that consisted of Couples, Daly, Lehman, Lietzke, Crenshaw, Faldo, Montgomery, Langer, Stadler, Colbert, Watson, Floyd, Trevino, Norman, Strange, Nelson, Gilder, Tewell, Hoch, Pooley, just to name a FRCATION. Not one of them looked alike and some not even similar at all. And these guys played not that long ago. I remember when Purtzer and Elkington had the "best swings on tour" voted by their peers.

Look at the swings today. There are so many swings that make those guys above look like hacks it isn't funny. Mahan, Woods, Scott, Olesen, Rose, Rory, Keegan, Sergio, Oosthuizan, Watney, Day, Cauley, Van Pelt, Woodland, Chucky III, (I am certain I missed a bunch) . I am by no means stating that the guys above are hacks by any means, I just think it is interesting to see how the game is changing, how swings are changing, and obviously how technology is impacting the game. Every tour now is loaded with guys that look like they swing on nearly the perfect plane, perfect setup, perfect balance, everything near perfect compared to some of the guys above. Of course, I wouldn't want to play any of the guys above for money, no way no how.

Thoughts?
[/quote]



It makes perfect sense that you see more swings of a similar style/look, because instruction with extensive video is now the norm. The funny thing is, all these players with "perfect swings" aren't winning any more than the players with "bad swings". That alone should tell people that making it look good doesn't equate to being effective.

A swing that adheres to a repeating impact position that comes the most natural to the golfer is the one that will hold up under the gun. All these manufactured, make it look pretty, swings fold often. Two of the best ball strikers of all time had the least style points one could imagine... Moe and Trevino... and Trevino was admired by the source of most peoples perfection obsession, Hogan himself. Case closed.

I'm not bagging on the style points obsessed, but damned if it's made a difference in peoples scores.

[mbell697]

So much talk about full swings, distance, and blah, blah, blah.

What separates pros from amateurs is the short game, full stop.

[SteelPride]

In my opinion, there isn't a better swing than Fred Couples. I don't think any of the new swings compare.

[scooterush]

[quote name='Imp' timestamp='1359327744' post='6310661']
There's one swing that I've recently taking a liking to... Luke List's. It's just so fluid, yet powerful. Take a look if you have a chance.
[/quote]
LLs swing is killer!!!! another pure talented smooth swing you should check out is Matteo Manassero. and i have been admiring how powerful and fluid Nicolas Colsaerts get through. they are fun to disect.

[scooterush]

[quote name='SteelPride' timestamp='1359351764' post='6312909']
In my opinion, there isn't a better swing than Fred Couples. I don't think any of the new swings compare.
[/quote]
its hard to find a smoother transition than Freddys. the Big Easy was as smooth as Freedy in my opinion and super powerful. Freddy makes the swing look so smooth and easy, then i try and release the club and follow through like Freddy and quickly learn that its not at all easy. i also learn why he might have those back issues.

[NHauss]

It's the guys who watched tiger growing up finally coming up and basically copying his 2000 Butch Harmon swing. He set the standard for probably the next 50 years on how to swing a golf club, and the funny thing is that he has now gone away from it. I'm not saying it was a bad or good move for him, just making an observation. As for results since then, th scoring average is going to continue to drop the more guys come out with these swings, but I donèt know how many of them are going to win regularly since Tiger made it work by being basically the clutchest guy on the planet back then.

[ChrizZ]

video instruction pretty much ruined golf swings.

Golf swings are an individual thing like your hand writing. As long as people can read it it´s functional and it doesn´t matter what it looks like. Same with golf swings. If you can make solid contact and get into a good impact position then that´s your swing and it doesn´t matter what it looks like.

All swing methods are basically just marketing and only visually alter your swing, but they won´t make you hit the ball better provided you could already make consistent contact and hit the ball from the inside.

Who says Adam Scott´s swing is more technically sound than Tommy Gainey´s swing? Just because it looks visually more pleasing?

The goal of the game is to get the ball in the hole with the least amount of strokes and not to hit lines and positions on a video screen.

[clubgolfer]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1359221265' post='6302913']
I have been watching a lot of golf lately, including the European and Austrail-Asian Tours, and the thing that strikes me more than anything now is how many of these guys have incredible golf swings. I have been watching golf I guess for 30 years, and it seems especially over the past 5 years there are so many guys with swings that I feel are so close to being perfect.

I remember when you had a Tour with swings that consisted of Couples, Daly, Lehman, Lietzke, Crenshaw, Faldo, Montgomery, Langer, Stadler, Colbert, Watson, Floyd, Trevino, Norman, Strange, Nelson, Gilder, Tewell, Hoch, Pooley, just to name a FRCATION. Not one of them looked alike and some not even similar at all. And these guys played not that long ago. I remember when Purtzer and Elkington had the "best swings on tour" voted by their peers.

Look at the swings today. There are so many swings that make those guys above look like hacks it isn't funny. Mahan, Woods, Scott, Olesen, Rose, Rory, Keegan, Sergio, Oosthuizan, Watney, Day, Cauley, Van Pelt, Woodland, Chucky III, (I am certain I missed a bunch) . I am by no means stating that the guys above are hacks by any means, I just think it is interesting to see how the game is changing, how swings are changing, and obviously how technology is impacting the game. Every tour now is loaded with guys that look like they swing on nearly the perfect plane, perfect setup, perfect balance, everything near perfect compared to some of the guys above. Of course, I wouldn't want to play any of the guys above for money, no way no how.

Thoughts?

Understand your comments but I think Elks swing would still be as good in todays PGA Tour, in fact he was an edge of the hole putt away from winning or making the playoff for the 2010 PGA. His swing is very simple and I have known his original coach since the early 90s and his swing concept is very simple. It revolves around the mirror image back and through. Todays Pros see to have moved to more centred swing with the follow through going left and up....ala Hogan.

Having said all that these top Pros certainly know how to golf the ball with whatever system they use.
[/quote]

[fairways4life]

[quote name='crestron-guru' timestamp='1359341738' post='6312087']
[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359335140' post='6311411']
[quote name='crestron-guru' timestamp='1359332077' post='6311101']
[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359233558' post='6303887']
If these modern swings are so great why hasnt scoring come down? Just cause these new swings look pretty doesnt make them efficient. I would take Trevino's swing over anybody out there when the pessure is really on. Scott has arguably the best swing out there according to popular opinion, but his pretty action didnt stand up under the closing stretch of a major. Pretty doesnt always mean perfect. What you want is an efficient, repeatable action, not a picture perfect swing with lots of moving parts.
[/quote]

Sheeesh calm down! At the end of the day success on tour is about how great you are mentally. Trevino had it mentally, Adam folds under pressure. The older people with hack swings will never like this topic.
[/quote]I think you are over simplifying things. Missing a putt to win a major is folding under pressure, hitting hooks is a technique issue. A good swimg is one that can stand up under pressure, not produce hooks when you have beem striping it for the previous 70 holes. Tiger keeps changing his swing cause he thinks he doesnt own his swing, I think the same can be said for most modern swings. Tiger misses lots of fairways by a long way, that cant be put down to lack of talent, its poor technique. Look at this years Masters playoff between two guys with modern swings. Both missed the fairway by miles in the playoff, could you imagine Jack or Trevino or Watson or Hogan missing the fairway by that much in that situation?
[/quote]

I don't want to make anyone feel retarded..... But did you really just call bubba Watson a modern swing Hahaha... Seriously its not simplifying anything at all. It comes down to mental game. If it didn't Tom Watson would have won the British a few years back. I don't know how you can even argue this.
[/quote]

Haha yeah I had to go back and read that a second time to make sure I read it correctly. Bubba Watson a "modern swing?" Uummm....... okaaaaaaay. I don't think he even has a swing coach. That poster needs to rethink their definition of "modern swing."

[Night train]

I'd put Tom Weiskophs swing up against any of todays...........as technically good as anything out there today.

......Sam Snead would be a pretty good model for anyone.........still

[jons1]

[quote name='ChrizZ' timestamp='1359360524' post='6313159']
Who says Adam Scott´s swing is more technically sound than Tommy Gainey´s swing? Just because it looks visually more pleasing?

The goal of the game is to get the ball in the hole with the least amount of strokes and not to hit lines and positions on a video screen.
[/quote]

ding ding ding... we have a winner

[vmann]

[quote name='mbell697' timestamp='1359348504' post='6312703']
So much talk about full swings, distance, and blah, blah, blah.

What separates pros from amateurs is the short game, full stop.
[/quote]This is exactly where the pros have picked up their one stroke per round.
Today's pros short games are way better than 20 years ago and light years beyond
40 years ago.

[mr smith]

[quote name='crestron-guru' timestamp='1359341738' post='6312087']
[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359335140' post='6311411']
[quote name='crestron-guru' timestamp='1359332077' post='6311101']
[quote name='mr smith' timestamp='1359233558' post='6303887']
If these modern swings are so great why hasnt scoring come down? Just cause these new swings look pretty doesnt make them efficient. I would take Trevino's swing over anybody out there when the pessure is really on. Scott has arguably the best swing out there according to popular opinion, but his pretty action didnt stand up under the closing stretch of a major. Pretty doesnt always mean perfect. What you want is an efficient, repeatable action, not a picture perfect swing with lots of moving parts.
[/quote]

Sheeesh calm down! At the end of the day success on tour is about how great you are mentally. Trevino had it mentally, Adam folds under pressure. The older people with hack swings will never like this topic.
[/quote]I think you are over simplifying things. Missing a putt to win a major is folding under pressure, hitting hooks is a technique issue. A good swimg is one that can stand up under pressure, not produce hooks when you have beem striping it for the previous 70 holes. Tiger keeps changing his swing cause he thinks he doesnt own his swing, I think the same can be said for most modern swings. Tiger misses lots of fairways by a long way, that cant be put down to lack of talent, its poor technique. Look at this years Masters playoff between two guys with modern swings. Both missed the fairway by miles in the playoff, could you imagine Jack or Trevino or Watson or Hogan missing the fairway by that much in that situation?
[/quote]

I don't want to make anyone feel retarded..... But did you really just call bubba Watson a modern swing Hahaha... Seriously its not simplifying anything at all. It comes down to mental game. If it didn't Tom Watson would have won the British a few years back. I don't know how you can even argue this.
[/quote]
Bubba is unorthodox but he still has a modern swing in that his hands are flippy thru impact and he relies on timing. I put this modern move down to technogy. Modern equipment reduces side spin and allows players to really go at it without hitting it off the planet. If you gave these guys wound balata balls and wooden drivers they wouldnt hit a fairway, pros of old had to hit controlled fades just to stay in play. Modern players just rip it with the hands through impact, but not many of them are sure which direction the ball is going. I would take Furyks old school swing every day of the qeek if it meant having his accuracy and control.