Rocketbladz tour - "B" Version

[easyyy]

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1360874245' post='6429641']
There are something like 30 million golfers in the US and while GolfWRX is the largest golf forum....it has something like 100-150,000 members.....that's like .005 of a percent of the golfing population total membership, and even a smaller percentage of good golfers.
[/quote]

What you are missing is that we have well over 3 million visits every month. Those visitors are influencers also. Our readership are gearheads and talk shop during there travels and that make for a different outlook. Sure only 120k registered but how many others came here and read or is getting inspired? Millions.

[Big Ben]

I'm with Richard, this is a powerful venue and the golfing world knows it and that's the very reason we should police ourselves and try to keep content clean and moving allowing all informed and highly knowledgeable members open and honest participation with no fear of reprisal...BB

[TheMoneyShot]

[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1360930506' post='6432891']
[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1360905582' post='6432427']
This thread needs to be locked. It's going nowhere fast...
[/quote]

Like every TM thread lately !!!
LOL
[/quote]

Unfortunately.

[Kadin 25]

Speaking of R9's here is a pic I took of Mike Weir's. I had a chance to take a brief look and took this shot. Yea I know, not the greatest but still pretty cool to see. BTW they looked like they were dragged behind a cart for 18 holes lol.

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1360938289' post='6433479']
Speaking of R9's here is a pic I took of Mike Weir's. I had a chance to take a brief look and took this shot. Yea I know, not the greatest but still pretty cool to see. BTW they looked like they were dragged behind a cart for 18 holes lol.
[/quote]

And they had 2 inches of offset

No I'm serious, guy likes his offset

[ProBowler]

[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1360935865' post='6433225']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1360874245' post='6429641']
There are something like 30 million golfers in the US and while GolfWRX is the largest golf forum....it has something like 100-150,000 members.....that's like .005 of a percent of the golfing population total membership, and even a smaller percentage of good golfers.
[/quote]

What you are missing is that we have well over 3 million visits every month. Those visitors are influencers also. Our readership are gearheads and talk shop during there travels and that make for a different outlook. Sure only 120k registered but how many others came here and read or is getting inspired? Millions.
[/quote]
Richard is correct and trust me there are many employees from every OEM on here reading what is written ....... Every day .... And it does influence what they do ......

[Riuzzi]

Speaking of R9's here is a pic I took of Mike Weir's. I had a chance to take a brief look and took this shot. Yea I know, not the greatest but still pretty cool to see. BTW they looked like they were dragged behind a cart for 18 holes lol.

 

And they had 2 inches of offset

 

No I'm serious, guy likes his offset

 

He sure does :)

 

[smackygolf]

[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1360935865' post='6433225']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1360874245' post='6429641']
There are something like 30 million golfers in the US and while GolfWRX is the largest golf forum....it has something like 100-150,000 members.....that's like .005 of a percent of the golfing population total membership, and even a smaller percentage of good golfers.
[/quote]

What you are missing is that we have well over 3 million visits every month. Those visitors are influencers also. Our readership are gearheads and talk shop during there travels and that make for a different outlook. Sure only 120k registered but how many others came here and read or is getting inspired? Millions.
[/quote]
[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1360935865' post='6433225']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1360874245' post='6429641']
There are something like 30 million golfers in the US and while GolfWRX is the largest golf forum....it has something like 100-150,000 members.....that's like .005 of a percent of the golfing population total membership, and even a smaller percentage of good golfers.
[/quote]

What you are missing is that we have well over 3 million visits every month. Those visitors are influencers also. Our readership are gearheads and talk shop during there travels and that make for a different outlook. Sure only 120k registered but how many others came here and read or is getting inspired? Millions.
[/quote]guys
[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1360935865' post='6433225']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1360874245' post='6429641']
There are something like 30 million golfers in the US and while GolfWRX is the largest golf forum....it has something like 100-150,000 members.....that's like .005 of a percent of the golfing population total membership, and even a smaller percentage of good golfers.
[/quote]

What you are missing is that we have well over 3 million visits every month. Those visitors are influencers also. Our readership are gearheads and talk shop during there travels and that make for a different outlook. Sure only 120k registered but how many others came here and read or is getting inspired? Millions.
[/quote]

You guys get 3 million unique visitors every month? Not unique IP's, but unique visitors? Never would have guessed.

[QUIGSFAN]

Why does it matter to everybody whether or not your club is the same one as the guys on tour use? Find what you like and use it. I am a big fan of TMAG and have had the opportunity to work closely with a lot of guys out at the kingdom, the stuff they give to the public is still good quality. Tour players are very specific with the looks of their clubs, and if they are out there playing for their living they should have clubs that look good to their eye.

[geauxWRX]

We all want the things we can't have!

[ragweed10]

[quote name='QUIGSFAN' timestamp='1360945149' post='6434129']
Why does it matter to everybody whether or not your club is the same one as the guys on tour use? Find what you like and use it. I am a big fan of TMAG and have had the opportunity to work closely with a lot of guys out at the kingdom, the stuff they give to the public is still good quality. Tour players are very specific with the looks of their clubs, and if they are out there playing for their living they should have clubs that look good to their eye.
[/quote]
For me its not wanting what the tour guys have, its I do not like offset and would like a set that does not have any. The retail offerings have offset and some of the tour stuff does not. If I could by a retail set right off the rack with zero offset I would. It just seems to be the only way to get this option is to buy tour issue.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1360935865' post='6433225']
[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1360874245' post='6429641']
There are something like 30 million golfers in the US and while GolfWRX is the largest golf forum....it has something like 100-150,000 members.....that's like .005 of a percent of the golfing population total membership, and even a smaller percentage of good golfers.
[/quote]

What you are missing is that we have well over 3 million visits every month. Those visitors are influencers also. Our readership are gearheads and talk shop during there travels and that make for a different outlook. Sure only 120k registered but how many others came here and read or is getting inspired? Millions.
[/quote]

I wasn't attempting to say this site doesn't get traffic, nor am I about to try to debate your product. I was merely stating that most of the membership thinks that just because a handful of members make some suggestions that OEM's should listen. Yes they pay attention and use it for ideas sometimes. Why wouldn't they? It is the best golf forum on the internet and it's almost free advertising and exposure with the Tour pics and obviously they like to keep people happy with the giveaways and sending you guys cool stuff to blast out to the site. Again, no disrespect, as I spend a ton of time on this site. 3 million hits a month is a lot, but still 1% of the golfing population. This site is global with members from all over, so it is a unique audience. Most members here, as I mentioned, are the most educated and are probably going to spend more money on stuff than the average consumer. I was merely making a point to a member who said that they don't care or don't listen to the WRX community. The do listen...[i]to an extent[/i], OEMs have specific people to monitor the social media sites such as this.

Now before I get into too much trouble talking about the site....


If I were a billion dollar company, am I going to concern myself with a limited release? Maybe if we really want it and the OEM's do listen. How about a poll or a petition is started. That might get the wheels rolling. Just an idea.

[TheMoneyShot]

[quote name='dplambert1' timestamp='1360948437' post='6434551']
We all want the things we can't have!
[/quote]

Isn't that the truth!!!

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='dplambert1' timestamp='1360948437' post='6434551']
We all want the things we can't have!
[/quote]

If the "B" heads were readily available or were a stock option and they still had other Tour versions....would we still be having this debate?

[Big Ben]

My question is this, why not offer a few of these tour inspired offerings as a custom order option and avoid this "tour issue" gray market all together? It's been the unexplained 50 ton gorilla in the room for too many years now, there's no way these tour issue clubs are still flowing out of the back door of the tour van, it's a business model that nobody at TM is interested in talking about. If I was a retailer I would be smokin hot to find out some cat invested 2k in a TM driver I can't sell. Its taboo, and we all know things like porn or in this case V2/B irons generate big bucks...BB

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1360956717' post='6435359']
My question is this, why not offer a few of these tour inspired offerings as a custom order option and avoid this "tour issue" gray market all together? It's been the unexplained 50 ton gorilla in the room for too many years now, there's no way these tour issue clubs are still flowing out of the back door of the tour van, it's a business model that nobody at TM is interested in talking about. If I was a retailer I would be smokin hot to find out some cat invested 2k in a TM driver I can't sell. Its taboo, and we all know things like porn or in this case V2/B irons generate big bucks...BB
[/quote]

Ok. I've said it a few times now, but I'll say it again. Taylormade as well as many other OEM's like the fact that their Tour stuff pulls a premium as it adds buzz to their products. If they release them to the masses, then they lose that allure as I have mentioned in the post directly above your's, "if they had B heads and still head Tour heads would you still be complaining?" It's not always in a companies best interest to release to the masses or even in limited quantities a ton of different variations of heads. Look at what Scotty Cameron does. Your question of retailers being upset about Taylormade when there are people paying $1000-5,000 for a Tour Cameron putter and retailers manage get $299-350 on good days out of the normal stuff ? Scotty Cameron's business model is successful and it seems about on par with Taylormades "Tour" product. He has a bunch of different stuff that you can't get retail but then certain people have access to order these "Tour putters" and turn around and make a mint on them. Why doesn't he release the 009 or GSS putters to the retail? Same reason TM doesn't have every Tour version out there. It's supply and demand. If the demand is high the supply will be low and prices will be high, if the supply is high the demand will be low and so will the prices. Look at the prices that Tour clubs pull now compared to 4-5 years ago when there wasn't as much of it. I'll say this again too, as I've also mentioned in other threads, if Taylormade a billion dollar company thought they could make a reasonable profit marketing Tour stuff, don't you think they would?

[geauxWRX]

The question now is who is making the premium on the tour clubs? Examples say scotty sells a 009 to table rock for $500. TR lists it for $2500, does scotty get a cut of that 2k? Same goes for TM are they selling these tour head to a sourc for $3-400 and getting a cut when it sells for $1200?

[Big Ben]

Scotty recognizes his putters and is willing to service them for a fee not to mention customize OTR product as well, really comparing apples and oranges. TM will not warranty anything grey market and to the best of my knowledge refuses to comment about them at all, where is the official WRX V2 thread?? As a point of reference, I'm not complaining about anything...BB

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='dplambert1' timestamp='1360959440' post='6435655']
The question now is who is making the premium on the tour clubs? Examples say scotty sells a 009 to table rock for $500. TR lists it for $2500, does scotty get a cut of that 2k? Same goes for TM are they selling these tour head to a sourc for $3-400 and getting a cut when it sells for $1200?
[/quote]

I would imagine Scotty takes a higher percentage or charges more than that. It's a little grey with how TM Tour heads get out there. Some are offered to certain sellers who are willing to buy a certain dollar amount say $15k worth of heads, that's how BSG used to run. That's how some end up out there....the rest well.....my lips are sealed.

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1360959962' post='6435703']
Scotty recognizes his putters and is willing to service them for a fee not to mention customize OTR product as well, really comparing apples and oranges. TM will not warranty anything grey market and to the best of my knowledge refuses to comment about them at all, where is the official WRX V2 thread?? As a point of reference, I'm not complaining nor did I ask you specially to "tell us this again", that was your decision but thanks for the insight...BB
[/quote]


I don't think Taylormade chooses to say they don't exist, they just don't divulge a lot of information....but do they really have to? They aren't really trying to market them....so they shouldn't really have to reveal too much about them. I see what people are saying and I get that but I'm playing devil's advocate here and sort of taking the stance from the companie's standpoint. I'm not trying to single you out BB and when I said "would you still be complaining" I meant "you" in reference to all of those upset TM doesn't have a "B" or "Tour" offering. The Scotty reference is pretty close though, I understand he has his custom shop stuff, but he still has Tour Only stuff but I was mainly referring to the differences in prices his Tour putters are compared to retail as you brought up retail TM to Tour TM. Scotty does capitalize on his Tour putters though.

This is an interesting conversation now, I'll try to be as objective as possible, even though I was messing with CP a little earlier in the thread:

What would be different if Taylormade had Tour offerings retail, but still had Tour only stuff as well? Do they owe it to the consumer to extend themselves so much that they have diluted their product? I think they realized having too many heads creates too much market confusion. Think back to the days when they would release 2 cycles of clubs like the 510, 540 and 580 then the XD Series and XD TP series? Where do they draw the line? If there was enough demand would they do it? I'd like to think they would, so clearly there isn't enough demand as we think or at least the market might not show it. Maybe start the petition like I said and see what kind of hype you can create....it kind of worked in the past with everyone dying for a modern day 510TP and TM had the SuperDeep that basically met that demand....the results were less than spectacular.

[Big Ben]

To add confusion you would have folks requesting VERY specific specs like 8.7 actual loft 1.5* open etc etc. Under warranty they really do not want to deal with V3 blah blah blah either as it would be so specialized might be difficult to replace...BB

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1360962954' post='6436009']
To add confusion you would have folks requesting VERY specific specs like 8.7 actual loft 1.5* open etc etc. Under warranty they really do not want to deal with V3 blah blah blah either as it would be so specialized might be difficult to replace...BB
[/quote]

it was my understanding taylormade doesnt sell the tour heads to any re sellers anymore, i remember some time ago a guy owned a golf website (like WRX) and taylormade sold him their old tour heads and he made a killing on them, then they said they stopped selling him heads. does anyone know for a fact if TM does sell their tour issue stuff to re sellers? i say re sellers because when i say retailers i think of the big box stores. i know will peoples says he gets them from tour players not necessarily from TM directly. or am i wrong? do we just assume TM sells them because they make it to market? im just a bit confused. it would explain why they dont warranty them, because they dont intend them to get into the publics hands. anybody have info?

[Dave Feldman]

I would love to see a set of B's for the new irons. I have 3 sets and love them all.

Pics:
Japan B's
TP B's
R9 B's

Would definitely pick up a set.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1360973402' post='6436843']
[quote name='Big Ben' timestamp='1360962954' post='6436009']
To add confusion you would have folks requesting VERY specific specs like 8.7 actual loft 1.5* open etc etc. Under warranty they really do not want to deal with V3 blah blah blah either as it would be so specialized might be difficult to replace...BB
[/quote]

it was my understanding taylormade doesnt sell the tour heads to any re sellers anymore, i remember some time ago a guy owned a golf website (like WRX) and taylormade sold him their old tour heads and he made a killing on them, then they said they stopped selling him heads. does anyone know for a fact if TM does sell their tour issue stuff to re sellers? i say re sellers because when i say retailers i think of the big box stores. i know will peoples says he gets them from tour players not necessarily from TM directly. or am i wrong? do we just assume TM sells them because they make it to market? im just a bit confused. it would explain why they dont warranty them, because they dont intend them to get into the publics hands. anybody have info?
[/quote]

There are a couple of people who still buy the "old stock" for example niblick99 on ebay usually gets all of the current years stuff late in the year. For example when they went with the White heads a couple years ago, he received every black head, such as all of the Superfast 282 Long Hosels and the other heads that went with those product lines. Right now he has all of last years RBZ woods, R11s v2, RBZ fwy P and S heads etc usually raw unbuilt and in the spec stickers. That makes sense that Taylormade would sell off all of the "old" heads to make room for the new heads but also maybe recoup costs for clubs that they would basically throw away. They clear the heads from the trailers because when a player goes into one, they want him hitting the most current stuff.....not allowing him the option to choose an older head. They will in some cases hold onto a few old heads for specific players that don't like to change that often but it's almost a requirement to switch to the most recent stuff to maintain staff agreements with Taylormade.....some guys just take longer to convert, but they almost always do. It is more so enforced with woods than it is with irons, that's why you still see R9 B's, MC's, and in some cases the Tour Preferred TP B heads on tour.

The mentioned other site that used to buy current heads and make a killing was bombsquad, but they kind of went through some changes and never fully recovered to what they once were. There are plenty of discussions (some which have been closed) documenting some of the stuff that lead to their downfall. One of the reasons that hurt them too, was that more people were able to get Tour heads. The Tour vs Retail debate has been going on for sooooooo long. How heads are leaked into the market is never the same. Sometimes companies do sell certain amounts to certain people and that is where you see raw in spec sticker heads....in most cases. Sometimes players give assembled clubs to caddies or don't use them and give them to their buddies and they in turn sell them. Some companies don't really mind, but in other cases how the heads are acquired is borderline illegal. Another thing to note is that sometimes defect heads that are way over the limit or way under the limit on the CT scale are given to the outlets without them knowing. It is my understanding that raw unweighted, unshafted heads are usually "stolen" or acquired in a shady manner if not directly purchased through the company. There used to be employees for certain OEM's that would specifically watch all the resell areas and in some cases buy the Tour heads to prevent them from getting into the normal consumers hands. The Tour equipment market is a little dicey for that very reason, that is why you see these sellers who sometimes get the clubs in a shady manner not fully revealing the full TXXXXX serial for fear of it being traced back through the system. I don't think all OEM's track the stuff like they used to, but there has been some cases where Tour players have gotten in trouble for selling Tour goods. Scotty Cameron, Titleist, and Callaway used to be REALLY strict about it, but now with how social media and photos have been popping up....it's becoming more of a hassle for them track, I think. When buying Tour Equipment, you do assume the risk that the head could be way out of spec, tests over the CT limit, weighted crazy with hotmelt and could end up failing to which you aren't covered under any warranty. Another reason why the Tour market is very grey. Tour Equipment is just as it is titled for Tour players, High profile amateurs and college players. The people who it is actually created for and issued to don't have any issues with warranty, but if it is acquired from a reseller sometimes the company takes the stance of, it was acquired in some unethical way. For that reason it has been rumored that some OEM's confiscate these heads and usually don't warranty it or if they do, they replace it with a standard retail head. Shaft companies like Matrix, send out specific flyers to their accounts stating that if you acquire a new shaft that is raw, uncut and uninstalled from a Tour avenue that they deem it as stolen goods and if they choose to can pull your account and seek legal charges. How much or how little it is policed is still unknown. Will Peoples seems to be the only reseller that I know of that warranties Tour Issue products and that's a pretty rare trait in that market. There are decent sellers out there who do buy clubs or at least used to from OEM's, Will Peoples to my knowledge is one of them and he is a sponsor here so that adds some validity too. I hope some people are a little more aware of what they are getting into when seeking that rare Tour Only club.

Side note: There are cases where players give their clubs to auctions for charities, but most likely they inform their companies of their intentions. There was a really crazy story of a former Tour Rep for Titleist selling Tiger Woods alledged major victory irons....he had to sell them on some oddball auction site because Titleist shut him down on ebay and all the forums, if I remember correctly.

[whatshannenin]

[quote name='Dave Feldman' timestamp='1360975793' post='6437067']
I would love to see a set of B's for the new irons. I have 3 sets and love them all.

Pics:
Japan B's
TP B's
R9 B's

Would definitely pick up a set.
[/quote]

Nice clubs dude! R9 B's are definitely a great head....one of their best to date IMO. They remind me a lot of the Tour Only Adams aTour Black from a few years ago, with the only difference being the Adams had a boxier toe which I prefer more.

[geauxWRX]

@dave I wish I had all 3 of those sets.

I would be great if will would confirm some of the things posted here.

[Zach Heusser]

[quote name='Dave Feldman' timestamp='1360975793' post='6437067']
I would love to see a set of B's for the new irons. I have 3 sets and love them all.

Pics:
Japan B's
TP B's
R9 B's

Would definitely pick up a set.
[/quote]
Doc your the Man!, I forgot you had those Tour Preferred B's. Break them out on Sunday when we play the Shore Course.

[easyyy]

Had all of them and played all of them. Love them all. The R9 Version "C"'s with more offset was the bomb. I got my only hole in one with the 6 iron, 181 yards baby!!!

[deck]

U know how in the dark I am about different irons? I had never heard of B or C versions or v1 v2 till I joined this site. Now I see them and its an obsession to try to hit them. Damn this site. I love it.

[Dave Feldman]

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1360978529' post='6437299']
[quote name='Dave Feldman' timestamp='1360975793' post='6437067']
I would love to see a set of B's for the new irons. I have 3 sets and love them all.

Pics:
Japan B's
TP B's
R9 B's

Would definitely pick up a set.
[/quote]

Nice clubs dude! R9 B's are definitely a great head....one of their best to date IMO. They remind me a lot of the Tour Only Adams aTour Black from a few years ago, with the only difference being the Adams had a boxier toe which I prefer more.
[/quote]

Thank you. Never tried those Adams. You have a pic of those posted?

[Dave Feldman]

[quote name='easyyy' timestamp='1360980798' post='6437545']
Had all of them and played all of them. Love them all. The R9 Version "C"'s with more offset was the bomb. I got my only hole in one with the 6 iron, 181 yards baby!!!
[/quote]
Nice! Yes the Cs are sweet as well!