European Tour becoming second tier?

[hardcaliber]

As recently as two years ago, I preferred watching the Euro tour to the PGA tour. It seemed like the fields were more exciting, the courses were more exotic, and the announcers had a pleasant English dryness. The past few weeks, I have really been struck by how lackluster the Euro tour has become, largely because it seems that the top players are leaving in droves. Top players like Rory, Westwood, McDowell, and Donald seem to be playing on the PGA tour as much or more than the Euro tour. I imagine that the economic situation in Europe is likely greatly contributing to the exodus. Aside from a few big events such as Abu Dhabi, the Euro tour fields are about as exciting as Sunshine, Asia, or Web.com.

[JustTheTips]

Euro tour has always been second tier. The difference between it and the web.com tour is the top 25 or so euro tour players are much much better.

[quote name='hardcaliber' timestamp='1364678468' post='6726933']
As recently as two years ago, I preferred watching the Euro tour to the PGA tour. It seemed like the fields were more exciting, the courses were more exotic, and the announcers had a pleasant English dryness. The past few weeks, I have really been struck by how lackluster the Euro tour has become, largely because it seems that the top players are leaving in droves. Top players like Rory, Westwood, McDowell, and Donald seem to be playing on the PGA tour as much or more than the Euro tour. I imagine that the economic situation in Europe is likely greatly contributing to the exodus. Aside from a few big events such as Abu Dhabi, the Euro tour fields are about as exciting as Sunshine, Asia, or Web.com.
[/quote]

[PuttLeftHitRight]

Becoming?

[MtlJeff]

I'd rather play the US pga tour even regardless of caliber or money. The Euro tour plays everywhere on the globe now. A lot of travel....logistically the PGA tour is just easier. Then you factor in money it's really a no brainer

[PuttLeftHitRight]

I was watching trophee this morning and they had the holes lined same as the PGA, except I only saw 1 fan

[Jamboy72]

PGA Tour




Euro Tour
Web.Com


That's the order...Euro Tour might be more 2nd tier now than before as more top stars leave that tour to play the PGA tour on a more full time basis...but it's always been a 2nd tier type deal

[iBanesto]

It has always been 2nd tier.

But the gap has narrowed a lot since 2000.

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='iBanesto' timestamp='1364690242' post='6727901']
It has always been 2nd tier.

But the gap has narrowed a lot since 2000.
[/quote]

Perhaps, but now it looks like the gap is widening... In the last couple years you've see Rory, Luke, Lee, etc. all make significant efforts to live, play, relocate families to the states and play a PGA tour dominated schedule....

[Finbarr Saunders]

We would have to drop down to the third tier for you guys to have a chance of winning the Ryder cup

[Craglyboy]

Like others have said its easier to play the pga tour logistically, travelling to Asia Africa and Europe must be irritating year on year.

[tbowles411]

Truth, but I still like watching it for some reason. Probably because it's golf.

[hardcaliber]

I agree with you guys that the PGA tour has had more depth overall for sometime, but I feel like the talent at the top end of the Euro tour up until the past year or two has been as good or better. To me, it was a legitimate rival to the PGA tour. Here is the way I look at it. If you are one of the top players in the world, and either tour is a viable career option, then they are both top tier. For example, the English Premier League is widely regarded as the best soccer league in the world. Although La Liga is not as good top to bottom, it is also a top tier league. Lionel Messi can choose to play on a La Liga team and get just as much exposure and make just as much money as if he played in the EPL. He does not need to be in the EPL to be considered the best player in the world, as he currently is. I feel like this was the state of affairs in golf until this past year. Now the situation is more like basketball, where there is one clear cut dominant league, the NBA. No great basketball player in their right mind would decide to choose to play in a different league other than the NBA. All other basketball leagues across the world are clearly inferior in terms of the money you can make and the glory you can achieve. This is essentially the state of affairs in golf right now.

[PedronNiall]

[quote name='Craglyboy' timestamp='1364693847' post='6728315']
Like others have said its easier to play the pga tour logistically, travelling to Asia Africa and Europe must be irritating year on year.
[/quote]

Indeed. Here it's Hawaii, a few stops in Cali, the FL swing, then TX, Masters, east coast, etc.

Euro Tour is South Africa swing, smatterings across Asia, smatterings across western Europe, etc.

Higher dollars and less travel in the U.S., with more pleasant weather; that's hard to beat in terms of ease of adjustment.

[soregongolfer]

Sorry, but the Premier League is not widely regarded as the best soccer league, except by the English. Many, including me, prefer La Liga. How many English teams are left in the Champion's League? I'd have to look, but I'm not sure there is even an EPL team in the Europa League.

As for the top of both leagues, do you think Barcelona and Real Madrid wouldn't be 1-2 in the EPL?

[iBanesto]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1364690903' post='6727993']
[quote name='iBanesto' timestamp='1364690242' post='6727901']
It has always been 2nd tier.

But the gap has narrowed a lot since 2000.
[/quote]

Perhaps, but now it looks like the gap is widening... In the last couple years you've see Rory, Luke, Lee, etc. all make significant efforts to live, play, relocate families to the states and play a PGA tour dominated schedule....
[/quote]

It is a shame.

Some players have had some great success while players like Kaymer seem to have struggled.

[chrisgilly09]

Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea...3?

BPL is better top to bottom but Barca and Madrid consistently outclass top English teams.

Prefer the Prem though

[hardcaliber]

[quote name='soregongolfer' timestamp='1364697830' post='6728739']
Sorry, but the Premier League is not widely regarded as the best soccer league, except by the English. Many, including me, prefer La Liga. How many English teams are left in the Champion's League? I'd have to look, but I'm not sure there is even an EPL team in the Europa League.

As for the top of both leagues, do you think Barcelona and Real Madrid wouldn't be 1-2 in the EPL?
[/quote]

I agree that Barca and Real Madrid are excellent and would be amongst the top teams in any league. I do still believe that the premier league is the best top to bottom, despite poorer than usual champions league results. I think individuals may prefer La Liga or Italian Serie A or even MLS, however that is a seperate issue altogether.

Anyway, I didn't mean to get in a detailed discussion about soccer. The point in making the analogy was just to show that there are in fact multiple viable leagues which are considered top level leagues. An elite player could play in whichever they prefer and not be significantly handicapped in terms of money or exposure. I think that is no longer the case in golf. There is now one clear cut top dog. I think the PGA tour will continue to get even stronger in the next few years, as the exodus has reached a critical mass and no one will want to be left behind. I'll be curious to see if lower ranked americans who lose their cards do to a greater influx of foreign players will start to populate the Euro tour.

[Langlands]

Yeah yeah, but my dad's bigger than yours.

[golfing_penguin]

Somewhat surprised no-one has really mentioned the money gap. Quality of golfers aside, the PGA Tour pays out loads more then the European Tour can. If it was reversed, the PGA Tour would be second tier

[dolfinack]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1364681840' post='6727187']
I'd rather play the US pga tour even regardless of caliber or money. The Euro tour plays everywhere on the globe now. A lot of travel....logistically the PGA tour is just easier. Then you factor in money it's really a no brainer
[/quote]

This is basically correct. It's not the players, it's the tour itself.

[HR Dave]

speaking of the European tour, I just saw a guy take a shot in his underwear on the golf channel. No joke, rather than roll up his pants he took them off and went into the shallow water to shoot. To bad this wasn't the LPGA, anyways weirdest thing I've ever saw on a pro tour.

[MtlJeff]

Henrik Stenson took off his shirt [i]and [/i]pants for a shot a few years back.

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='hardcaliber' timestamp='1364678468' post='6726933']
As recently as two years ago, I preferred watching the Euro tour to the PGA tour. It seemed like the fields were more exciting, the courses were more exotic, and the announcers had a pleasant English dryness. The past few weeks, I have really been struck by how lackluster the Euro tour has become, largely because it seems that the top players are leaving in droves. Top players like Rory, Westwood, McDowell, and Donald seem to be playing on the PGA tour as much or more than the Euro tour. I imagine that the economic situation in Europe is likely greatly contributing to the exodus. Aside from a few big events such as Abu Dhabi, the Euro tour fields are about as exciting as Sunshine, Asia, or Web.com.
[/quote]

It has always been second tier, and the fields are still pretty good, depending on the time of year and appearance $$$.

I don't mind watching the other guys, and am plenty happy Rory and Lee, etc. will bolster the Tour's events.

[PedronNiall]

[quote name='golfing_penguin' timestamp='1364740091' post='6730189']
Somewhat surprised no-one has really mentioned the money gap. Quality of golfers aside, the PGA Tour pays out loads more then the European Tour can. If it was reversed, the PGA Tour would be second tier
[/quote]

It had been mentioned already above.

[bunter101]

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1364701056' post='6729043']
Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea...3?

BPL is better top to bottom but Barca and Madrid consistently outclass top English teams.

Prefer the Prem though
[/quote]

It's not better as such, more the teams and style of football is closer in terms of abilities. Technically, teams and players in the bottom half La Liga teams are so far ahead of bottom half EPL teams.

Remember Manchester United in the Europa league last season? they got a footballing lesson by a Spanish mid table team.

[Llortamaisey]

It's pretty insulting thinking the Euro Tour was ever 3rd tier. It never has been and hopefully never will be.

[ron lefthanded holmes]

[quote name='bunter101' timestamp='1364746608' post='6730679']
[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1364701056' post='6729043']
Spurs, Newcastle, Chelsea...3?

BPL is better top to bottom but Barca and Madrid consistently outclass top English teams.

Prefer the Prem though
[/quote]

It's not better as such, more the teams and style of football is closer in terms of abilities. Technically, teams and players in the bottom half La Liga teams are so far ahead of bottom half EPL teams.

[b]Remember Manchester United in the Europa league last season? they got a footballing lesson by a Spanish mid table team.[/b]
[/quote]thasts because there were going for the title against city and played there second / third team players in it,no English side like been in the Europa league its well crap

[hardcaliber]

[quote name='golfing_penguin' timestamp='1364740091' post='6730189']
Somewhat surprised no-one has really mentioned the money gap. Quality of golfers aside, the PGA Tour pays out loads more then the European Tour can. If it was reversed, the PGA Tour would be second tier
[/quote]

This is essentially what it all boils down to, the almighty dollar. I think that most of the European guys that have come over the past year or two would probably rather be in Europe. I would imaging they put the decision off as long as possible, however the money gap is just getting way too big to ignore. When you get a big money tournament such as the middle eastern ones, you still get a great field. Its just a classic follow the money situation. I thinks its actually interesting to see how larger demographic and economic trends play out in the sports world. In the US, the money and population have been gradually shifting from the eastern seaboard and rust belt to the south and the west. This power shift has been reflected in a number of sports.

[Craglyboy]

[quote name='soregongolfer' timestamp='1364697830' post='6728739']
Sorry, but the Premier League is not widely regarded as the best soccer league, except by the English. Many, including me, prefer La Liga. How many English teams are left in the Champion's League? I'd have to look, but I'm not sure there is even an EPL team in the Europa League.

As for the top of both leagues, do you think Barcelona and Real Madrid wouldn't be 1-2 in the EPL?
[/quote]

The premier league is widely regarded as the best league in the world, and this is shown in the viewership not only from the UK but around world producing a new tv deal between all the clubs worth £5 billion pounds. Look at the sponsorship deals generated in the premier league and you will see it generates the most again. La liga in contrast is in tremendous debt with only 2 teams allowed to flourish. Again even the fans in Spain don't go to the matches anymore with ever decreasing attendances at matches.

With regards to Real Madrid and barca, looking at our fixture schedule with regards to competing in the league cup, FA cup, champions league, and premier league without the benefits of being able to choose which date you play on so you can gain rest days for important matches, and the fact there are a lot less easy games to be played through a season in comprarison to the calibre of la liga, would inhibit barca and Madrid. Not to mention the physicality of the premier league with teams and like stoke and the fact there is not a winter break in this league. Admittedly I would expect them to be top 4 but if they gained their revenue in a fair and ethical manner and play with the intensity of the premier league week in and week out would show those two teams up.

Also even messi has said he would never be able to score as many goals as he has in the premier league.

[corky]

PGA raises more money for charity than the Euro does.... how do we know? because fhey tell us.... meanwhile European governments fund their hospitals so golf tournaments don't have to.....