My Journey - From Top Posers, to Slicefixer, to iteach Dan

[Jacob Mac]

[quote name='rocker40' timestamp='1365436315' post='6784933']
So im going to ask the question noone else will ask. Will a High Handicap benefit from going to Geoff Jones or Dan C?
Or are both of these instructors too advanced for me???
[/quote]

I'm a high handicap and I saw iteach a couple of weeks ago. He was a great help. I didn't become a plus handicap overnight, but I certainly improved. And I had a lot of fun.

[Eag1e]

In the 3 days I spent with Geoff, there was probably about 4 hours behind the computer, 2 hours talking to a friend as he sat behind me watching me hit 9-3s, 3 more hours actually observing/instructing me, the rest was digging it out of the dirt. After I left, I was playing somewhat better... however, I had on and off struggles with shanks for half a year afterwords. When I was there, Geoff told me there was a foolproof way to stop shanks - for whatever reason told me that he'd give it to me if I ever actually needed it rather than telling me then, and I never received a response about it when I texted or emailed him in those multiple shank-ridden periods. It took me 4 months of hitting 200-400 balls a day, with 2-3 practice swings each, with intense dedication before I could play with some success. I may have kept with Geoff if not for the completely inadequate communication. Before I came I was told that after the ground school we'd be able to do a Skype lesson every month or two to keep me progressing - in spite of constant effort on my part, there were only two occasions when he even said he would try, and both times he failed to show up online at the time we'd picked, and sent me a text _hours_ afterwords telling me he couldn't make it. And we're talking late night Skype sessions - I stayed up until past midnight waiting for him to come online one of the times, and he never did, and never sent a text until the following morning. In spite of constant effort on my part I never got any more assistance from him after I left, and after nine months of that I finally gave up on Geoff. I shot two tournament 73's, but I also shot three tournament rounds in the 90's after leaving Geoff - the three day ground school's material did not make me in to a consistently competent golfer at all, and while it made the fundamental motion of my swing better, the results were worse more often than not. I may have made good progress with his method if he had actually worked with me as he said he would - Skyping every month or two after I left Texarkana - but he didn't. Honestly, I cannot say I'd recommend Geoff, and might even recommend against him because of my personal experience if somebody asked me about going to him or not; his method requires continual assistance, and I was not even close to receiving that.

It seems that my experience isn't entirely the norm, but this is my experience. I'm not sure if there was some reason Geoff turned a shoulder to me or if it was coincidental - but the results are the same either way. I can say that Dan has never ignored me, and in spite of my occasional spurts of being a higher maintenance student than many (in other words, actually asking questions/at times getting more technically minded than I should and needing videos checked), he's always there for me when I ask for help. To be honest, Dan's felt as much like a friend to me as he has a coach.

[quote name='rocker40' timestamp='1365436315' post='6784933']
So im going to ask the question noone else will ask. Will a High Handicap benefit from going to Geoff Jones or Dan C?
Or are both of these instructors too advanced for me???
[/quote]

I'd go with Dan... Geoff's stuff is much more work-intensive. To be blunt, I think that with Geoff you can expect to be worse at times before you get better, and the work is majorly structured and grindy - with Dan, it's more of a continual process of getting better, and being molded in to a good swing that's closest to what you've already got rather than a single model. As a high handicap, it's likely that you'll do much better immediately with Dan. You'll end up just as good with either if you're dedicated and work consistently with both for the next 2-3 years - but you won't take 2-3 years with Dan, and you'll be continually better in the process and able to stop at any point playing better than you were before the last lesson.

[Jericho]

Thanks for sharing. I was seriously considering going to Geoff a while back but 2 things stopped me: 1) Cost- I live in S. Florida and between the plane/car and instruction fee it was just too much considering this is a hobby. I mean I want to be good but let's be honest...thousands of dollars for what would be a 1 time visit, and 2) His theory is years and 1000's of reps. I'm a mon-fri 9/5'er and plan to start a family in the near future. I dont have the time or means ($12/bucket really adds up quickly) to practice that much. Thus I opted to continue doing my best on my own. However, after reading this the I think it's much more feasible to drive to J-ville as needed.

[Eag1e]

[quote name='Jericho' timestamp='1365439035' post='6785365']
Thanks for sharing. I was seriously considering going to Geoff a while back but 2 things stopped me: 1) Cost- I live in S. Florida and between the plane/car and instruction fee it was just too much considering this is a hobby. I mean I want to be good but let's be honest...thousands of dollars for what would be a 1 time visit, and 2) His theory is years and 1000's of reps. I'm a mon-fri 9/5'er and plan to start a family in the near future. I dont have the time or means ($12/bucket really adds up quickly) to practice that much. Thus I opted to continue doing my best on my own. However, after reading this the I think it's much more feasible to drive to J-ville as needed.
[/quote]

Since Orlando's only half as far for you, you could join the list of people who are interested in seeing him in Orlando. Usually if he can get a full day booked he can make a trip down sooner or later.

[akim1220]

[quote name='GoogleMe' timestamp='1365436759' post='6784985']
I struggle with keeping my arms in front of me, impact ball really helped and Dan's aritcal that he wrote about making swings half way back and half way forward with both arms straight has helped.
[/quote]

Do you have a link to the article? was it posted on golfwrx?

[bab]

[quote name='akim1220' timestamp='1365441486' post='6785825']
[quote name='GoogleMe' timestamp='1365436759' post='6784985']
I struggle with keeping my arms in front of me, impact ball really helped and Dan's aritcal that he wrote about making swings half way back and half way forward with both arms straight has helped.
[/quote]

Do you have a link to the article? was it posted on golfwrx?
[/quote]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/791161-get-your-arm-swing-and-pivot-in-sync/

[Evil Ecstasy]

[quote name='rocker40' timestamp='1365436315' post='6784933']
So im going to ask the question noone else will ask. Will a High Handicap benefit from going to Geoff Jones or Dan C?
Or are both of these instructors too advanced for me???
[/quote]

I would say with Geoff its not likely youll benefit, I was a high handicap, and the way Geoff works is he has general priniciples he wants in your swing, but doesnt pay nearly enough attention to your individual swing faults. In my case his usual general principles of pivoting, not stalling and not flipping didnt apply to me as I had other issues that he didnt really address. Basically my swing was such that I had other faults (a low left arm in the back swing, overly connected arms in the downswing, spinning out, and a reverse pivot) that forced me to cast away the club, and since he didnt address the root causes, when I tried to do 9-3's with a CP release it lead to some pretty horrific results. And although Geoff is great for people with hooking problems, I had a slicing problem as well as a lack of length problem due to my arms being overly connected and behind my body in the downswing, and he didnt really address either of these problems. Geoff is very focused on the pivot, but the problem was that I had too much pivot in my swing and too little arms! To be fair to Geoff, he did tell me many times I had a reverse pivot and spun out causing the slice, but didnt really help me with fixing either of these problems much. He basically believed that these issues would resolve themselves if I did a million 9-3's by myself, but I just dont seem to learn that way.

I think with Geoff you are likely to benefit if you are really patient, have tons of time, and are already a decent player that has a flipping/hooking problem.

[irishiain]

I had a similar experience with Geoff (not trying to be negative about him, just not a great fit for me). Wound up going with a local guy who taught a very similar style swing. The more individualized attention and then obviously the proximity made a big difference for me.

[HoganAfficianado]

This two year time frame is not set in stone. It really all depends on where the student is currently and where they want to be in the future. I've heard Geoff say that a student could "get it" in as few as a couple swings and that could make all the difference. The two year time frame comes in to play when you start talking about swing overhauls. Tiger has said many times that it took around two years for his swing changes to feel natural.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1365410370' post='6783393']
Thanks for the compliments. For me, I needed to get the arms in front of me, so he showed me how if I keep my right arm straight, and just the right one because if the right arm us straight the left will be too, it is impossible to swing the arms behind me. Try it, if your right arm is straight your chest will go with it. So I simply try to keep my right arm straight going back even though it does bend u feel like it never does. Then coming down I just feel like there is a string attached from my hands which are now dead in front of the buttons on my shirt to those buttons and keep it all together the same speed. That's it. Very simple. Keep right arm straight, then keep hands in front if buttons and right arm straight all the way thru to finish. It is amazingly simple swing thought for me.
[/quote]

Can you explain the string, hands button thing again, you feel a string is attached to your hands to which buttons on your shirt? And you keep that string straight the entire swing or something?

[tylerdurden]

You guys forgot that 5 minutes on the chipping green with Dan is worth the price of admission. I feel like I'm cheating off tight lies now.

[SunkTheBirdie]

[quote name='Evil Ecstasy' timestamp='1365444928' post='6786343'] I think with Geoff you are likely to benefit if you are really patient, have tons of time, and are already a decent player that has a flipping/hooking problem. [/quote]
Hey ... That's me !

[Jacob Mac]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1365456836' post='6788059']
You guys forgot that 5 minutes on the chipping green with Dan is worth the price of admission. I feel like I'm cheating off tight lies now.
[/quote]

The wedge shots Dan showed me were eye opening. It was raining pretty hard, so we were hitting chip shots off an exterior wiper mat. The lie could not get any tighter, and I hit a couple shots towards the putting green from under the cover of the veranda with pretty good success. My wedge game has improved a lot.

[Pinsplitter59]

I find it interesting to have confirmed something I have always believed and have found so may people do not understand, most pro teachers as well.
If you make a change and its the right thing to do, it will work almost immediately!!
If it takes hundreds of hours and a million reps, it is wrong.

[lui_boy]

Looking good! I'm jealous Love the leverage you're getting in those "after" videos and it appears you're well on your way to better consistency. Next stop, short game!

[nevets88]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1365391255' post='6782781']
The short game stuff was equally as good too. No more trap wedges for me. Bounce is your friend and he taught me some cool stuff.
[/quote]

I think this is similar to what Stan Utley teaches. Use your body turn feel the bounce hit the ground and none of this ball off the back foot open stance traditionally taught. It's a lot easier and offers more margin for error.

[kekoa]

We need to get a group together and have Iteach do a clinic here in socal. Still kicking myself for not seeing him in SD.

[CSagan]

[quote name='kekoa' timestamp='1365460856' post='6788511']
We need to get a group together and have Iteach do a clinic here in socal. Still kicking myself for not seeing him in SD.
[/quote]

Im in.

[fanofsaosin]

i think with the string idea is that you wouldn't want it lagging behind or to far in front, i would think its a visual to keep the hands in front of the sternum

[Jacob Mac]

[quote name='fanofsaosin' timestamp='1365461756' post='6788619']
i think with the string idea is that you wouldn't want it lagging behind or to far in front, i would think its a visual to keep the hands in front of the sternum
[/quote]

When I saw Dan a couple weeks ago, I had the exact same thought as the op. I felt like the arms and torso had to get through the ball in unison, in sync, and if my chest was out in front it was fat city. If my arms were in front, I would hit a pull. If they went through together, I had a good chance at hitting it decently.

[Pure745]

[quote name='kekoa' timestamp='1365460856' post='6788511']
We need to get a group together and have Iteach do a clinic here in socal. Still kicking myself for not seeing him in SD.
[/quote]

RUN DC!!! RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pk6467]

Hstead's swing looks great. Dan can obviously teach. But to say that that someone will not benefit from Geoff is ridiculous.

[augusta13]

Agree with pk6467, both are world class teachers and have hundreds of happy students. No need for negatively here.

[SPIF]

[quote name='augusta13' timestamp='1365468616' post='6789287']
Agree with pk6467, both are world class teachers and have hundreds of happy students. No need for negatively here.
[/quote]

Why? His experience in Texarkana was underwhelming. Others on this forum may be willing to spend significant money on their quest to find an instructor, and use this forum as a a deciding factor on who to see. There have been no less than 4 people in the last month who had similar experiences as the OP.

How in the world is this not relevant? And furthermore, there was zero negativity. He was very praising of Geoff and numerous times indicated he felt GJ just wasn't for him. Where's the issue?

[SPIF]

[quote name='pk6467' timestamp='1365466176' post='6789025']
Hstead's swing looks great. Dan can obviously teach. But to say that that someone will not benefit from Geoff is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Once again, why? He did not benefit. Simple stuff here, yet people seem personally offended.

If someone went to DC and didn't see a positive change, are they not allowed to state their experience? It's an open forum, and a small percentage of people who went to see Geoff weren't happy or content with the experience. It's not like they're saying Geoff is a bad person, just that he they didn't personally benefit from seeing him, which you say is a ridiculous statement.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='SPIF' timestamp='1365469433' post='6789405']
[quote name='pk6467' timestamp='1365466176' post='6789025']
Hstead's swing looks great. Dan can obviously teach. But to say that that someone will not benefit from Geoff is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Once again, why? He did not benefit. Simple stuff here, yet people seem personally offended.

If someone went to DC and didn't see a positive from the experience, are they not allowed to state their experience? It's an open forum, and a small percentage of people who went to see Geoff weren't happy or content with the experience. It's not like they're saying Geoff is a bad person, just that he they didn't personally benefit from seeing him, which you say is a ridiculous statement.
[/quote]

Agreed. Hstead gave an informative review. That's what forums are for, so people can be infor(u)med.

Moral of the story is Dan worked best for hstead and he explained exactly why, which will hopefully help others make an informed decision on what's best for them (which I'm sure was the intent - and to give Dan props for his amazing skills).

[pk6467]

Evil Ecstacy stated that a high handicap would not benefit from Geoff. A lot of his students start mid to high handicap and most improve greatly in a short period of time. This is why the statement was ridiculous.

[sheldonjhacker]

[quote name='SPIF' timestamp='1365469175' post='6789369']
[quote name='augusta13' timestamp='1365468616' post='6789287']
Agree with pk6467, both are world class teachers and have hundreds of happy students. No need for negatively here.
[/quote]

Why? His experience in Texarkana was underwhelming. Others on this forum may be willing to spend significant money on their quest to find an instructor, and use this forum as a a deciding factor on who to see. There have been no less than 4 people in the last month who had similar experiences as the OP.

How in the world is this not relevant? And furthermore, there was zero negativity. He was very praising of Geoff and numerous times indicated he felt GJ just wasn't for him. Where's the issue?
[/quote]
Make that 5 people...but don't dare say anything negative about SF !!!! What a joke-this is a FORUM-where we should be honest and try to help fellow members who love golf !!!

[pk6467]

My post was not referring to hstead, but evil ecstasy. I should have made that more clear. I did not find hstead's post negative.

[Hstead]

First thing first, thank you very much for those that have made compliments regarding my swing. I do not really know anyone on this board with the exception of a couple fellas I have had the pleasure of meeting, but I do know several of you are accomplished players and I have seen several of your swings, so compliments from you folks is quite humbling. Confidence is so important in golf as we all know, and I have never had enough. I have always felt it is one of my biggest weaknesses, but I didn't feel like I had reason to be confident most of the time. My consistency didn't allow for it. All of the praise from informed and accomplished players gives me confidence, so thank you.

Second, in regards to the string from the hands to the buttons questions. It is a visual image that at the top of the swing, the hands are directly in front of the buttons on my shirt, so right in the center of my chest. I was actually visualizing and thinking of it more as a steel rod vs a string in my own mind even though Dan said "string". I feel like the hands are connected to the buttons on the shirt, so when the buttons move, so do the hands in the exact same relationship. Does that make sense?

Lastly, regarding "negativity" etc. I apologize if I offended anyone and I knew this thread could possibly head in the wrong direction with emotions etc. I was not meaning to call Dr. Suttie a "Poser" specifically and do not mean to demean other teachers. I should not have used those words really to keep to the theme of remaining positive. So I was the first offender of my own request. For me, Dr. Suttie was unable to help at all. That does not mean he cannot help others, he just was unable to help me. It is probably as much my fault as his. I have just found that the Top 100 list is more of a political BS list versus a list that is comprised of the best teachers in the game. I have had some teaching pros explain some of the politics etc behind the list so that is where "posers" came from.

The main reason I started this thread was just as tylerdurden stated, I wanted to help others that were or are in the same boat that I was in, trying to decide where to spend my hard earned cash, my blood sweat and tears, and where to travel. I have driven from Ohio to Tuscaloosa AL, 8+ hours, to TXAR, 12 hours, and to Jacksonville FL, 10 hours etc. I have spent quite a bit of money for me anyway and time trying to better my golf swing and game. I am a bit of a perfectionist and I do not like being mediocre at anything. I tend to have to try to be the best at something or I just can't stand doing it. There is a reason I am not a gymnist, swimmer, marathoner, etc. I am not made for those sports, and couldn't stand finishing last in a competition. So my apologize, I just have found that Dan has amazing talent at figuring out what pieces work together and what do not for each individual and he is outstanding at explaining the cause and effect etc.

That gets me to the "method" and the "why 300 swings and video" comments earlier.

Dan has no method other than to get a player to swing the club on plane with an in synch swing of the body, arms, and club. He removes the clutter and helps you swing the club on the correct plane and in synch. It is very different for each of us and that is why some of the swings do not even come close to being similar and are actually total polar opposites in some instances.

One of the big differences between Dan and Geoff is that Dan watches every swing, and he is videoing them for his benefit. He can see the slo mo way better than with his human eye although it is good too. He is constantly checking each and every swing looking for things to polish. The major work was done within 3 swings, the rest were polishing. It was great for me since I am one that requires trust and verification. I am not one to naturally be confident in golf since I have struggled fixing these flaws for 20 years. It is hard for me to just trust that the flaws are gone in 3 swings. REAL HARD. So with Dan looking at every swing on video, and then saying, "come check this one out" and I continue to see my club in positions it has never been in before over and over and over, eventually I started trusting it faster and building confidence.

I was literally afraid to hit driver. I never took the driver out of the bag the first day. All wedges and 7 irons. The second day I said "well here goes let's see what this does" and I was totally apprehensive. Dan was like "what are you worried about, the driver will be the easiest club to hit with these changes". I am thinking how can that be possible, it is the longest, least amount of loft etc etc. Sure enough the first one was melted. The flight Dan creates is almost dead straight, no draw or fade really. Very low spin since he shallows you out and it just flies straight. I can;t believe how much easier the driver is to swing. The wedge is actually the hardest for me.