My Journey - From Top Posers, to Slicefixer, to iteach Dan

[Evil Ecstasy]

I spent a very large amount of time trying to learn from Geoff (living in Texarkana for two months is quite miserable) and it was a very frustrating experience, so yeh, theres going to be some negativity. I was making a big sacrafice. Just trying to warn others that might be in the same boat. Yeh there are SOME high handicaps that would benefit from Geoff, but I think there are a lot of better choices for the high handicap golfer with a slicing problem. Monte probably being #1 choice in that department.

[MK7Golf21]

Thanks for the posts Hstead, some of those feels helped with my backswing as well.

[Hstead]

[quote name='sheldonjhacker' timestamp='1365471006' post='6789645']
[quote name='SPIF' timestamp='1365469175' post='6789369']
[quote name='augusta13' timestamp='1365468616' post='6789287']
Agree with pk6467, both are world class teachers and have hundreds of happy students. No need for negatively here.
[/quote]

Why? His experience in Texarkana was underwhelming. Others on this forum may be willing to spend significant money on their quest to find an instructor, and use this forum as a a deciding factor on who to see. There have been no less than 4 people in the last month who had similar experiences as the OP.

How in the world is this not relevant? And furthermore, there was zero negativity. He was very praising of Geoff and numerous times indicated he felt GJ just wasn't for him. Where's the issue?
[/quote]
Make that 5 people...but don't dare say anything negative about SF !!!! What a joke-this is a FORUM-where we should be honest and try to help fellow members who love golf !!!
[/quote]

I have to admit, I had to really think about and decide if I was going to do this or not. I have great respect for Geoff and I knew this could go south quickly. Thank goodness it has not.

I have communicated to quite a few guys that have gone from Geoff to Dan. They are numerous actually and I have not talked to all of them by any means. A few even asked if I were going to talk about it after I went to Dan if I had the same experience as they had. Every player I have talked to to a man has had the same exact results that I have had with Dan. Many of those guys benefited from Geoff much more than I did, but they improved more and faster with Dan. No one wants to say it. I am not like that. I wish someone would have said it to me. Granted, I did learn some things in TXAR, it was not a total loss and as I mentioned, Geoff did not charge me the full amount. He is a man of great character. Dan just happens to have a special talent that many of us have found out about, but for some reason no one really wants to be "that guy" to make the comparison.

There will be many more people in the future that decide to go see the SLICEFIXER, as he has reached a cult like status in some circles. There are enough players to go around. Many of those players will benefit from Geoff, some will not. He has helped many and will help many more.

Dan though, I honestly believe is the best golf teacher in the business. I know that is a profound statement as I have not taken lessons from even a fraction of the teachers in the US. But, I have been around the block, read lots and lots of books, golf magazine articles, watched DVD's, youtube, Golf Channel, you name it I consume it when it comes to golf instruction, and I have not seen anyone talk about what Dan talks about. The proof is really in the pudding. The before and after's absolutely speak for themselves. There is nothing that needs to be said really, just watch the videos.

Dan will tell you he can be a little arrogant or cocky. There is a reason though, he can back it up. He knows how good he is. His confidence actually helped mine. He was certain he could fix me, and I was certain he could too. I do not know of anyone he has not fixed, although they may be out there.

I haven't spoken about my son much either, but Dan was really good with him too. He is a beginner, so Dan did not want to clutter his head with instruction. It was what he didn't say that was probably the most important. I purposefully have not given him much instruction either knowing I was taking him to Dan, and I want him to learn to play golf and not golf swing. Dan reminded me of Mr. Myagi from Karate Kid, "wax on wax off, sand the floor, paint the fence" lol.

[pk6467]

Excellent post

[Bucken77]

Very good thread Hstead. Your swing looks incredible! Man any NC'ers want to get a group together? I'm down if they do

[grizztrax]

Well if you guys don't want to go all the way to Jville to get a lesson from Dan, just go through SwingFix on golfchannel.com and get your video lesson! Yes Iteach (Dan Carraher) is out there and available for lessons. I just ordered a 4-pak and had my first lesson with him the other day. I have been plagued by a nasty hook for the last year or so, thanks to some not-so-great-instruction that had me swinging out to right field. Arms would get trapped behind my body, and the stall flip caused some crazy pull hooks.

I have had other video lessons on SwingFix, and it helped a little, but once I saw Dan was out there I had to sign up. He immediately identified my issues and assigned a couple drills. Same story - need to keep the club in front of me on the DS.

I played 18 holes the next day, and hit a bucket of 30 balls beforehand just trying to do what Dan told me. My swing felt AWESOME. Crisp strikes that were pretty accurate, by the end of the bucket I was feeling good and accuracy was there. First hole, stripe a 3-wood down the middle, second shot 140 yard wedge to 3 feet, birdie! I had 3 birdies on the day, 7 pars, 3 bogies, and the rest "others." Rome wasn't built in a day and my hook did reappear at times, but I always followed it with a good shot.

I am really excited for this year, Dan is definitely the man. I hope to get to FL to get an in person lesson with him at some point, but he is so good with the video it may not be necessary. For 30 bucks, you cannot go wrong!

[bph7]

I'm pretty sure the comment that people took issue with was about how Geoff couldn't help a high handicap... Not about everybody's personal experiences with him. I think all posts here have been honest, informative, and civil, and, again the only thing that anyone was disagreeing with was the blanket notion that slice couldn't help a high handicap. Both slice and Dan are excellent instructors who are more than capable of helping people of all skill levels.

[QMany]

Evil, how long were you down there with Geoff?

[parmark]

I'm signing up with Dan via Golf Channel Swing Fix tonight thanks to this thread. Spent all last summer banging my 9-3's, and while helpful to some degree, time and life doesn't allow for another year of that. Excited to pursue this, thanks for sharing your experience. But kudo's to you also for the effort and results on your part, awesome swing! Good luck, keep it up.

[threejack]

[quote name='Bucken77' timestamp='1365474784' post='6790115']
Very good thread Hstead. Your swing looks incredible! Man any NC'ers want to get a group together? I'm down if they do
[/quote]

If he comes to NC, I'll be there to see him.

[Evil Ecstasy]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1365475045' post='6790157']
Evil, how long were you down there with Geoff?
[/quote]

I was there twice seperated by about 6 months, one month each time.

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='Evil Ecstasy' timestamp='1365478260' post='6790521']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1365475045' post='6790157']
Evil, how long were you down there with Geoff?
[/quote]

I was there twice seperated by about 6 months, one month each time.
[/quote]

If you spent 2 total MONTHS with Geoff and didn't improve, it wasnt his fault. His track record speaks for itself.

I just think it was pretty nice of him and his family to let you stay that long.

[lv_2_hack]

Hstead good work man. Dan has a gift.

Does the takeaway feel weird to you? Thats where i noticed the biggest change. I read most of the posts, but if I missed you discussing this I apologize.

[bph7]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1365479292' post='6790601']
[quote name='Evil Ecstasy' timestamp='1365478260' post='6790521']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1365475045' post='6790157']
Evil, how long were you down there with Geoff?
[/quote]

I was there twice seperated by about 6 months, one month each time.
[/quote]

If you spent 2 total MONTHS with Geoff and didn't improve, it wasnt his fault. His track record speaks for itself.

You should be thanking him and his family for ALLOWING you to stay that long.
[/quote]

Come on man, did you really have to go there? He didn't have a good experience. He's tried to be objective. There are people in this read just begging for someone to say something like you just said so they can go "omg slicefixer fanboys can't imagine he's not the best ever". The dude didn't have a good experience. He tried to explain why. This thread has been pretty civil and informative, try to keep it that way.

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1365479533' post='6790619']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1365479292' post='6790601']
[quote name='Evil Ecstasy' timestamp='1365478260' post='6790521']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1365475045' post='6790157']
Evil, how long were you down there with Geoff?
[/quote]

I was there twice seperated by about 6 months, one month each time.
[/quote]

If you spent 2 total MONTHS with Geoff and didn't improve, it wasnt his fault. His track record speaks for itself.

You should be thanking him and his family for ALLOWING you to stay that long.
[/quote]

Come on man, did you really have to go there? He didn't have a good experience. He's tried to be objective. There are people in this read just begging for someone to say something like you just said so they can go "omg slicefixer fanboys can't imagine he's not the best ever". The dude didn't have a good experience. He tried to explain why. This thread has been pretty civil and informative, try to keep it that way.
[/quote]

Here's my issue. People put so much weight into many of these posts. He posted that he didn't think Geoff could help higher handicaps. I've worked with Geoff a bunch, and for the record am planning a trip to go see Dan.

Geoff has his faults (scatter brained, hard to get a hold of, wont watch every swing) but to say he can't help higher handicappers is both ill advised and flat out wrong. Especially when the person saying it spent 2 months with him.

[XJared]

Good honest post. Ignore the fan boys and haters. Not everyone learns the same ways and you found someone who can connect to you.

[Evil Ecstasy]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1365479292' post='6790601']
[quote name='Evil Ecstasy' timestamp='1365478260' post='6790521']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1365475045' post='6790157']
Evil, how long were you down there with Geoff?
[/quote]

I was there twice seperated by about 6 months, one month each time.
[/quote]

If you spent 2 total MONTHS with Geoff and didn't improve, it wasnt his fault. His track record speaks for itself.

I just think it was pretty nice of him and his family to let you stay that long.
[/quote]

I didnt stay at his house for more than a few days. Obv cant stay in his house for 2 months.

I know very few individuals from out of town that have spent longer than 2 months in Texarkana. Most people only come 3 days a time, so thatd be 20 trips to Texarkana. Honestly I feel foolish for spending as long as i did but I hate giving up. Keep in mind that I probably worked on his method for over a year. The 2 months was just the time I was actually in Texarkana.

And im not saying he cant help higher handicaps. Im just theres a lot better options for most people.

[slicefixer]

Obviously I had to respond to this thread.

First of all, I'm very pleased to hear that Heath benefited greatly from going to see Dan Carraher. I'd also like to verify that everything that Heath stated about his stay in Texarkana is accurate.

Secondly, I wish people would contact me when they have a problem with something I've done as that's normally mutually beneficial. Much moreso than this format.

Thirdly, in my lifetime in golf I've tried my very hardest to conduct myself with character and integrity. I'm going to attempt to always continue to do so until they plant me in the ground.

Fellows, Dan IS a fine teacher. He'll undoubtedly help many, many people. It's obvous he's already done so from the reaction in this thread. I have NO doubt that he'll help a LOT of golfers during the course of his teaching career.

If there is one thing I learned a LONG time ago is this. I simply can't, no matter how hard I try, help everyone to reach their golf goals. Sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss. Sometimes personalities work well together and sometimes they don't. Sometimes what I think a student wants, isn't what they want. (normally don't find this out to after the fact) I'm certainly not perfect nor infallible. I make mistakes as I'm human. I'm not some type of golf messiah that can guarantee a person substantive improvement. In fact, I've never met one and I've been around a bit in my lifetime in golf.

To be honest, the last 8 months or so have been pretty hard on me both mentally and physically. I've simply been overwhelmed and prety worn out. I'm a one man band who teaches 7 days a week. I rarely take off other than a couple of weeks in the winter to hunt. Since 2005 it's been a whirlwind journey for me. Most of it's been good, some of it not so good, but, all of it's been overwhelming at times. The cummulative effects have taken a toll on me. I HATE excuses, but, that's simply the honest truth.

I'm not going to go into some long winded defense of my teaching resume. This is not the place or time to do so and it's simply not my style. I will say that the record shows that I'm pretty good at what I do provided the student is willing to pay the price to achieve substantive improvement. (if that's what they desire......and most that visit tell me that is their desire) However, again, I can't guarantee long term and substantive success. If I did I'd be lying and I try to never do that.

I can tell you this with 100% assurance. You'll not build a truly championship caliber golf swing/game without "paying the dues." I've been very fortunate in my lifetime to have been in the inner circle with 3 world class golfers. They ALL worked very, very, very hard to build their golf games. There are NO flukes in golf......zero.

Many golfers have tried to "circumvent the process" (including myself at one time) and all have failed. Please understand, I'm not referencing the average golfer who simply wants to improve their golf game to a respectable level. Or the golfer who wants to take what they've got, alter it to some degree in order to improve thier impact dynamics, and go from there. I'm referring to a person who really wants to develop themselves into a fine player......a championship level player. Might be the club champion, city champion, state champion, but, a champion to some degree. MOST of the guy's who visit me tell me that's exactly what they wish to do. Therefore I don't mince words and I attempt to tell them what they're up against...IMOP.

I'm a VERY strong believer that true substantive improvement is earned over time. It takes thousands of reps and hours of dogged determined practice. The reason I feel this way is it was MY experience in building my game to the level it eventually became. Believe me, I KNOW my place in the game. In fact, for years I felt like a failure because I "didn't make it." However, upon reflection I certainly have nothing to be ashamed of as I developed myself into a pretty decent player. (and it was very, very hard)

I can also ASSURE you guy's that EVERY truly good player I"ve ever been around has paid the same dues to some degree. You can't get around it. At least in my opinion. I've certainly never witnessed anyone get around it. NOT saying it's never been done, but, I highly doubt it.

My experiences are verified by books like The Talent Code, Talent is Overrated, and Outlier's. It's also verified by the statements of virtually all great athletes, musicians, businessmen, etc. etc. etc. The great Pele said it took him (paraphrasing from memory) "1000 repetitions to get comfortable with a change, 10,000 to own it." The unbelievable success of the South Koreans in our game or the Russians/Spaniards in tennis is also living proof. I HIGHLY recommend you do some research into how they develop such fine players, the incredible work ethic, etc. etc. etc. I'll assure you they learn how to swing a golf club/tennis raquet in a VERY different manner than is commonly attempted in the United States. I GREATLY admire the way they go about teaching/learning the golf swing, etc.

I'm a firm believer that if a person has sound fundamentals they then have the opportunity to develop a fine golf swing. To be quite honest, most players fundamentals are simply terrible. (again, I was one of them at one time......terribly fouled up) I know that once I placed my hands on a golf club properly and set up my body on angles that were conducive for creating a simple swing motion I began to improve rather dramatically. However, to ingrain and own it took time. To "find the ball" required a LOT of short shots. To INGRAIN and OWN a change required a LOT of slow motion reps, mirror work, drills, and wee lil' wedge shots. Once I could strike the ball in the center of the face then everything began to fall into place. As that was MY experience it can't help but influence how I teach our game. I've also had quite a bit of success at developing some folk's into pretty darn good swingers of a golf club as well as fine players.

Now, with all of that being stated, I'm certainly not batting a 1,000. I wish I could, but, it's simply not realistic. I'd never make that promise as achieving substantive improvement is a two way street. I can only attempt to hold up my end, but, the other end is out of my control. ( I always attempt to hold up my end, but, I'll definitely miss from time to time....it's inevitable)

IMOP, to truly learn something as 3 dimensional, athletic, and dynamic as a golf swing in a fumdamentally sound manner requires a person to be "different" from the norm. Especially so in the "instant gratification" society that we now find ourselves living in. I believe that you've first got to UNDERSTAND "where you are at present," (why you hit the shots that you do....the shot pattern) Then understand "where your trying to go." Then you've got to have some semblance of a "plan to get there." A "map" so to speak. You've got to know what it is "technically" without getting overwhelmed. You've got to know what it "looks like." (that's why I show quite a bit of video.....most of it is actual students of mine) And finally, you've got to know what it "FEELS like." My goal during a 3 day school is to attempt to achieve all of the above. Sometimes I hit, sometimes I miss.

I'd like to conclude my response by stating this, fellows, I'd like to think that my actions on this website when responding to golf questions or debating the golf swing during my time here speak to my sincerity in attempting to help other golfers. I know that I never posted here in an attempt to promote myself and my golf knowledge. You'll not find a single post where I listted my website, blog, email, phone, etc. etc. etc. I was simply attempting to help golfers and occasionally participate in a debate, some of them were quite "spirited." I know that I always conducted myself in a manner that my children could be proud of. You won't find a single curse word, personal attack, etc. in any of my posts. It's just simply not how I'm "wired."

I also realize that the success I had as a result of my time on the internet will breed resentment, etc. As a result problems will follow at some point. It's just part of the deal.....part of the price. As they say, "it comes with the territory."

In closing, I would like to ask that this thread doesn't turn into some type of "Dan vs. Slice" pissing contest. Dan's a fine teacher and is getting results for his students......which is why he's a fine teacher. I think the reviews I've received over the years plus my resume should prove that I'm pretty good myself.

BTW, I'd like to ask "Evil" to contact me if he would. I only know of ONE student who has ever stayed at my home for two months as a result of this website. He stayed 2 months with us last year, won his states mid-am last summer, and came back for a return visit over 3 months ago. In fact, he's on my Masters trip with me right now. I also find it hard to believe that someone that enjoyed the use of my home for two months could write something like your post. (Ben, is that you?)

[Evil Ecstasy]

Im sure Geoff can deduce who I am, and as I said I did not stay in his place more than a few days. The rest of the time was sleeping in my car or in a hotel.

[golf_fanatik]

Very classy response by Geoff. Nicely done.

[GwrxMod]

[quote name='slicefixer' timestamp='1365482983' post='6790863']
...

In closing, I would like to ask that this thread doesn't turn into some type of "Dan vs. Slice" pissing contest. Dan's a fine teacher and is getting results for his students......which is why he's a fine teacher. I think the reviews I've received over the years plus my resume should prove that I'm pretty good myself.

...

[/quote]

WOW, thanks for taking the time Geoff. As always, [b]FIRST CLASS[/b].

Kevin

[KevCarter]

[quote name='slicefixer' timestamp='1365482983' post='6790863']
...

[b]In closing, I would like to ask that this thread doesn't turn into some type of "Dan vs. Slice" pissing contest[/b]. Dan's a fine teacher and is getting results for his students......which is why he's a fine teacher. I think the reviews I've received over the years plus my resume should prove that I'm pretty good myself.

...

[/quote]

WOW, thanks for taking the time Geoff. As always, [b]FIRST CLASS[/b].

Kevin

[parmark]

Golf clap, tip of the hat to Geoff. Stand up guy in my book. And nice to hear what needs to be said said at times,(that's not a typo!) in this day and age of PC and hiding behind keyboard rants, that's not always the case. Just want to say Thanks to Geoff for all he does, just his ebook and philosophy and threads dedicated to him on this site have helped me greatly.

[tsdean1980]

Hopefully back on topic here,

So Dan say why he thinks the longer clubs are easier than the shorter clubs? Is it to do with rate of closer and over-taking rate?

[tommykrebs]

Sorry I read not everything. In my BS I try to keep my arms and hands more in front of my body. In the DS I drop my hands towards my right foot. Do you feel this move? The more I practice the more it's in sync with the rotation of my body but it's still hard to learn.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='slicefixer' timestamp='1365482983' post='6790863']
...

[b]In closing, I would like to ask that this thread doesn't turn into some type of "Dan vs. Slice" pissing contest[/b]. Dan's a fine teacher and is getting results for his students......which is why he's a fine teacher. I think the reviews I've received over the years plus my resume should prove that I'm pretty good myself.

...

[/quote]

Thanks for the kind words Geoff and I agree. It's why I've stayed out of this thread even though Hstead's reason for the thread meant no harm I figured there would be some mudslinging and didn't want to get involved. Have a good one Geoff, and I know from experience, take a day off here and there. Best of luck and enjoy the Masters

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='jblacoustics' timestamp='1365479665' post='6790631']
Don't understand how Dan can be of more benefit to you when Dan is just a student/disciple of Geoff/Slicefixer the master...

I don't think Dan gave you Geoff's principles. He tweaked it to suit your current moves. Just IMO of course. Like the more away or less inside takeaway...it's what suits your current grip and hands position at setup.
[/quote]
Sorry but you're obviously confused. I've never met Geoff, though I respect him greatly, and am not a disciple of anyone. I've earned everything I have in golf, and haven't rode the coat tails of anyone.

If you don't know what you're talking about its best not to speak so matter of factly about things.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1365510300' post='6791587']
[quote name='slicefixer' timestamp='1365482983' post='6790863']
...

[b]In closing, I would like to ask that this thread doesn't turn into some type of "Dan vs. Slice" pissing contest[/b]. Dan's a fine teacher and is getting results for his students......which is why he's a fine teacher. I think the reviews I've received over the years plus my resume should prove that I'm pretty good myself.

...

[/quote]

Thanks for the kind words Geoff and I agree. It's why I've stayed out of this thread even though Hstead's reason for the thread meant no harm I figured there would be some mudslinging and didn't want to get involved. Have a good one Geoff, and I know from experience, take a day off here and there. Best of luck and enjoy the Masters
[/quote]

There is good reason Dan and Geoff are two of the most respected teachers on the forum.

Kevin

[Hogan1975]

Well, if it makes both slice fixers and Dan iteach camps happy. I did mpmig and docf for 8 months..was a bad experience..terrible really. I wish the situation was handled how you to handled it in this thread. In fact, I would've given up that program in 2 seconds to spend an hour with slice fixer or I teach. You guys are both great what I read...if I spent 8 months doing your stuff, I'm sure I would be way way way more advanced now

Working with Doug on making golf fun thread..and getting better

But just stating if you think I teach or slice fixer wasn't what you were looking for, be in my shoes,,and do docf and mpmig for 8 months..now that is a bummer

Honest opinion from a golf consumer like u guys.. I know I might get attacked for my comments...but it was beyond fun.. No positions, all abstract feels..one mans feels that expects you to have the same feels you do..I better stop, now I'm getting confused again.

[Eag1e]

Classy as always Geoff... I think the majority of us who have had less than stellar experiences think nothing less of you as a person and still owe a lot of what we know about the swing/game to you. I know I do at least. Like you said, you get overwhelmed... at times have a bit more on your plate than you can handle. Doesn't change the experiences some of us have had but at least in my case and Hstead's, and likely many of the others, we have empathy for the situation. It seems to me lately though that it's been getting more common that some students get less than they expect from you, which may be from you having more and more going on over time, and I think it's just being fair users of an open forum to share our stories as something to consider for anyone considering the trip. Prior to this thread there was a Godlike aura on here from nobody posting anything but successes - all of the information should be presented to the public rather than only the positive ones, even if the negative ones are in the minority.