What is the most effective way to count putts for improvement?

[RJRJRJ]

I count anything originating on the green as a putt. If im one inch off the green, its not a putt. I guess this is technically the correct way to track the stat, but it got me thinking that its probably not an accurate reflection of how well I'm playing/putting.

 

Do you guys have any putt tracking protocol that you use for the purpose of improving your game? Should I count anything that "is in the spirit of a typical putt" as a putt? 6 inches off the green?

[nbg352]

In the many years that I cared about such things, I would include any stroke that was putted with a reasonable expectation of holing it.

[mdgboxx]

I use my putter as far as 10 yds from the green, in the short grass/fairway. It's a stroke, not a putt.
When a pro lands in the first cut from his tee shot, it's considered missing the fairway. Same thing applies if his ball comes to rest on the fringe, on a par 3, it's not a GIR. But, he's still putting for birdie.

[dhc1]

I don't think it matters as long as you are consistent in how you are doing it (to track your relative performance). If you want to compare to the pros, you should only consider it a putt where it's on the green and you can mark and lift it.

I use shotbyshot.com and it tracks my progress as compared to my stated goal handicap as well as the pros. It's depressing to know the truth.

[OrlandoSean]

If you putt it, its a putt, doesn't count as a green in reg though. If you a trying to improve then count it and work irons a little more to improve your proximity to the hole. Getting back to putting stats, keep track of how far your putts are. That way you know what putts you are struggling on.

[Gbyeball]

[quote name='dhc1' timestamp='1367362307' post='6946805']
I don't think it matters as long as you are consistent in how you are doing it (to track your relative performance). If you want to compare to the pros, you should only consider it a putt where it's on the green and you can mark and lift it.

I use shotbyshot.com and it tracks my progress as compared to my stated goal handicap as well as the pros. It's depressing to know the truth.
[/quote]

This is why I don't keep track of such things, don't need anymore ways to get depressed.........thank you very much

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1367361374' post='6946721']
In the many years that I cared about such things, I would include any stroke that was putted with a reasonable expectation of holing it.
[/quote]

Thats sort of where im going with it. Maybe any time I use my putter over another club because I feel it will give me a better chance of holing/lagging it, will count as a putt.

[mdgboxx]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1367361374' post='6946721']
In the many years that I cared about such things, I would include any stroke that was putted with a reasonable expectation of holing it.
[/quote]

When he was with Butch Harmon, Tiger got quite good at chipping from around the greens with his 3W. He had the same exact expectations. When he holed it, it was down as zero putt in his stats for that hole.

[nbg352]

[quote name='mdgboxx' timestamp='1367363835' post='6946969']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1367361374' post='6946721']
In the many years that I cared about such things, I would include any stroke that was putted with a reasonable expectation of holing it.
[/quote]

When he was with Butch Harmon, Tiger got quite good at chipping from around the greens with his 3W. He had the same exact expectations. When he holed it, it was down as zero putt in his stats for that hole.
[/quote]
I like that thinking too. But because I wanted to improve my putting, I made it difficult for myself by using the method I described.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1367360684' post='6946657']
I count anything originating on the green as a putt. If im one inch off the green, its not a putt. I guess this is technically the correct way to track the stat, but it got me thinking that its probably not an accurate reflection of how well I'm playing/putting.

Do you guys have any putt tracking protocol that you use for the purpose of improving your game? Should I count anything that "is in the spirit of a typical putt" as a putt? 6 inches off the green?
[/quote]

What if you decide to use putter from 2 feet? 5 feet?

The edge of the green is the most logical place to draw the line. Keeps things simple.

Some here seem to be advocating a middle ground...counting it as a missed green but a putt at the same time. That doesn't add up to me. Reaching a GIR means par minus 2 putts.

[mdgboxx]

Let's say that you're good enough, or lucky, to hit every GIR but, you two putted everything. You walk off 18th as a "scratch".....That's very good.

But, you have 36 putts in that round, which is no longer a "great" round of Golf, IMO. What if you come up short on every hole and, like me, you use the putter to get on the green and still two putt. That's 54 putts; there is NO WAY you cannot improve on that. You would only need to use your wedge and cut 18 putts. That's my point about putting on the PUTTING Surface and only count those as putts.

[Ripper212]

Just because you elect to use a putter doesn't make it a putt. Obiously not a putt when 20 yards off the green or under the trees! Best way to track this stat IMO - count it as a putt if it's so close to the green that putting is the ONLY logical choice; don't count as a putt if there's a reasonable choice between chipping and putting, even if you choose to use a putter.

[Kevie Ray]

If it's on the PUTTING surface it's a putt. If it's not it is considered stroke. I really don't see any gray area.

[ericpaul2]

Personally, I like the idea of intention...If you feel you're using a putter to complete a "chip", then it isn't a putt, but if you're putting from a reasonable proximity of the putting surface with reasonably good short grass initially, then it's a putt.

BTW, I consider gross putts to be a poor way of tracking putting. I prefer to track two additional stats. First, initial putt length..that tells me if a good putting round was caused by excellent approaches (or very poor approaches and good chipping), or vice versa. If you're putting from 5 feet four or five times a round, you're total putts will look good, even if you weren't putting well overall. If you start from 50 feet away too often, three putts are bound to happen, even for the pros. Neither are really indicative of putting performance. Second, putting handicap in terms of total length of putts made. See the following link:

[url="http://thepowerfade.com/2010/12/09/useful-measurement-putting-handicap/"]http://thepowerfade.com/2010/12/09/useful-measurement-putting-handicap/[/url]

This will start telling you if you are making those 6 - 15 footers that good putters will make occasionally and poor putters never make. Again, this can be fooled in either direction by good approaches, but that's why I track the first stat too. The three stats together will give you a full picture of your putting performance.

[TheCityGame]

If you're really going to just compare yourself to yourself, then who gives a crap. But, keep in mind, you might be playing better in a couple months, and your putts are staying the same, but that might just mean you're hitting more GIR. More on that later.

If you want to be able to talk the same language as every else, and compare your stats to established norms, then there is only one way to count putts. . .everything on the green and nothing else. For instance, a stats page like this. . . [url="http://www.probablegolfinstruction.com/PGI%20Newsletter/news09-07-04.htm"]http://www.probableg...ews09-07-04.htm[/url]

But look at the bigger question you ask. . .tracking putts for the purpose of improving your game. Counting putts is a very difficult way to get at that figure because it is totally intertwined with how many greens you hit. And, I'm not being overly pedantic or technical when I say that. You'll see in that link that he calls the relationship between putts and score "weak". But, the relationship between GIR and score "strong". However, if you're shooting 90/100 whatever, and your putts are a LOT higher than what he lists on that page, then you should probably work on putting.

Anyway, for starters, you could look at "putts per GIR". If you're over 2, then you probably have room for improvement. But, again, if you're a 90-100 shooter, then you're probably only hitting 0-3 greens per round, so you don't have good data.

My advice. . .only count stuff on the green as a putt, but keep in mind that that counting is highly dependent on other things.

By way of example, look at these two rounds of mine. One of them, I had 29 putts. Shot 80. Only hit 7 greens. Had 11 pars. The other round, I had 33 putts. Shot 78. but I hit 10 greens, and had 10 pars. In both of them, I had 2 putts per GIR.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

i think the whole reason the Tour has gone to the strokes gained in putting stat is because the total putts stat is deceiving and not really the best way to determine putting skill.

we all know that a ball 15 ft from the hole on the fringe is not much different from a ball 14ft away on the green. both taking two shots to get down, one showing up as being a better putter.

the only way to really tell if your putting well is using the pga stat and that requires knowing the distance of each putt. they can do this on tour, not practical for amateurs. i think the best way to track your own putting skill level is to track 3 putts, makes outside of 5 feet, and misses inside of 3 feet and compare these round to round.

[RJRJRJ]

Wow, some good answers. Im starting to rethink my entire strategy.