How if all women moved to the back tees ? And if they gots rid of tee colors ?

[tommy89]

Yup, based on skills not gender would be a much better idea. My girlfriend would smash 70% of the guys on our home course off the tips. She can outdrive and out score most of them with boring pars. Stupidly because shes a girl she has to stick to the ladies where there's no competition for her. We go out normally and she plays off the mens though. There's a girl at my other club thats +2 and is allowed to play in mens comps. And beats a lot of them

There's nothing i hate more than weekend warriors with there brand new TM 3 woods trying to hit greens from 250. They can't get it 2 feet let alone 250. Why not hit 2 6 irons and actually score better and not hold everyone up. There's nothing i hate more than ego and arrogance. Golf seems to attract both hugely. When i raced motocross people like that got covered in mud every time you go past them

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='divotbeltran' timestamp='1367467769' post='6955621']
[quote name='Kaysquare' timestamp='1367457962' post='6954611']
Tell me, why on earth would a man who's about 75 yrs old, with a 25+ handicap, play from the blues???
[/quote]

'Cause he's a long bomber!!
[/quote]

And probably a regular on GolfWRX.

[chockrl]

In my area I know a lot of women college golfers, seems like they all work in the club house at area courses. They all have game, some more than others, and I really respect the few that will play from the tees one shorter than the tips.

I don't think there should be any gender specific ratings, tee's, etc. If you hit it 250 off the tee, male or female, the rating should be the same and you should play from the same exact tees, and if you score the same you should have the same handicap as well.

[Sawgrass]

I play shortish tees. I believe that irrespective of gender, we should only play tees from which we can reasonably achieve.

But I'll add that if it were not for "ego", few of us would be playing at all. Whacking a ball around for 18 holes is kind of dumb unless you egotistically decide that you can control it. And then try to prove it.

And then try to mend your ego.

[jjj912]

My experience is that the extra time it takes to play from the championship tees versus the senior tees is minimal to insignificant. The only thing that really changes when you play from the rear tees is that you use your longer clubs more often and the long par 4s will tend to play as short par 5s.

A high handicap golfer hits a lot of wayward shots regardless of the distance to the hole. Drives into the woods occur regardless if the green is 300 yards aways or 450 yards away. A bladed pitch over the green occurs regardless if the tee box is 300 yards behind or 450 yards behind. A long par 4 that the high handicap golfer plays as short par 5 just becomes a three shot par 5 when he moves from the senior tees to the championship tees. Once a high handicap golfer gets more than about dozen feet or so from the hole, 3-putts become routine, so it doesn't matter if the golfer is 35 feet way rather than 20 feet away because he hit a 4i into the green instead of an 8i.

Logistically speaking, a golfer that takes a half dozen practice swings before every shot has bigger pace of play issues than playing from the wrong set of tees. The golfer that sits in his cart until it is his turn to play before checking the yardage, pulling clubs, and taking his practice swings has bigger pace of play issues than playing from the wrong set of tees. I think the group that settles all their bets on the 18th green instead of the clubhouse probably does more to hold up the pace of play than the group playing from a wrong set of tees. The guy that spends 5 minutes looking for lost balls on every other hole holds up the pace of play regardless if he's playing from 5800 yards or 7000 yards.

[PaddyK]

[quote name='syenkoc' timestamp='1367424224' post='6951217']
[quote name='PaddyK' timestamp='1367393517' post='6949237']
[quote name='Directvtechguy' timestamp='1367370879' post='6947707']
No ego for me... If its a long course.. I'll play a box up if Im unfamiliar with the course..

Always play the tips for courses under 6800... If its over and I don't know it... Screw it... Id play from the ladies box if I had to...

I have a buddy who's a 437 handicap....

He plays from the " [b]ladies box[/b] " while I play from the tips all the time.


Here's the thing.... We want it to stop being an ego thing... Stop referring to it as the ladies box...

It's not designed for women... Is designed based on handicap. Pure and simple.
[/quote]

Giggity.

How many sets of tees does a typical US course have?
[/quote]

My home course has three sets of tees, par 71:
Red: 6223
White: 6684
Blue: 7426

It has men's rating for all three tees, and women's rating for red and white. I've seen plenty of guys play off the reds - it is rated 71.2/137 from the reds for men, so it is still quite a challenge. There's definitely no stigma attached to playing the reds.

I've only seen a few ladies play off the whites, and only one play off the blues. She joined our threesome last fall... senior in high-school and she crushed all 3 of us. She was just barely long enough to play the blues (there are many 240+ forced carries from the blues), but I don't think I've ever seen crispier iron play - I swear she could hit a manhole cover from 175 with every shot.
[/quote]


7400 yards.. lol who plays off those tees?

[syenkoc]

Removed.

Edited October 11, 2023 by syenkoc

[Singapore Joe]

[quote name='jjj912' timestamp='1367506209' post='6957443']
My experience is that the extra time it takes to play from the championship tees versus the senior tees is minimal to insignificant. The only thing that really changes when you play from the rear tees is that you use your longer clubs more often and the long par 4s will tend to play as short par 5s.
[/quote]

I would like to agree that for an individual player the difference is potentially insignificant. But when you consider a busy day a single group playing poorly from the wrong tees has great potential for slowing up the whole course.

The tees _should_ be designed so that off the shorter tees I will be able to launch my shot to the same general landing area (preferably a bit closer to the hole) than the longer players playing from the back tees. If my group is not in that general area after our tee shots then the group behind us has to wait for my whole group to play the second and even third shots to get out of the intended landing area before playing their tee shots. When this happens hole after hole you will create a block that prevents a smooth flow of the game.

Was just stuck behind a group yesterday for over five hours and exactly this was happening. Not only did it slow down the game but it created a lot of annoyance and frustration as it was impossible to maintain any pace and rhythm of play which is worse than slow but steady game [if such a thing even exists].

[nbg352]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1367366985' post='6947305']
[color=#800080]Woulds the guys playings the wrong tees finally realize how they hold up courses ands stuffs ? Woulds their comments abouts the women nots being *long* enoughs make it into their own brains ? I am assuming ego woulds still *make* them tee it up on back tees even if there was no more *red* color.[/color]

[color=#800080]I personally believes as long as men haves egos this will never *sink in* , so never , but woulds be nice if these peoples woulds understand how dumb it really is. [/color]

[color=#800080]And the arguments abouts they pay , so they haves right to do the stupid things is just a big *fail* to me. I coulds pay to goto a baseball game ands have rights to stand up ands block peoples behind me the whole time from watching. It is stupid though ands rude and selfish. At least the stadium workers woulds do something abouts it if told. Not like most pointless rangers or marshals , who do nothing , especially if it is their friends being the idiots.[/color]

[color=#800080]Beings girl who can hit it pretty far , i gets comments if i move up or move back , so i lose either ways. [b]I just wish tees woulds start putting markers tellings how far it is to 150 yards from middle of greens. No colors , no anything else. Maybe enough peoples woulds start to see if it is 300 yards ands they drive it 250 yards , they needs to be moving up tees. [/b][/color]

[color=#800080]I know when i follow two , three , or four guys as a single girl (walkings or riding) , they barely ever let me through. So i haves to skip holes or play five hour rounds by myself. I know the tee *issue* is a huge problem with lots of peoples , but until the PGA runs a *Stop the Denial* campaigns on amateurs believings they are better or longer thans they actually are - i see no way it changes. A shame for peoples who show respects for others and care abouts pace of play ands ettiquettes while on a golf course.[/color]

[color=#800080]Nots talking abouts looking down on lacks of skills which causes slower play. But less skilled should really move up too , until better at playing.[/color]
[/quote]
I really like this idea!

[tatertot]

Every course should have 4 sets of tees:

Scratch +
Single Digit
10-18
18+

You're free to move down a tee, but not up. And nobody wants to hear about the guy that drives 350 consistently but 4 putts his way to a 25 handicap.

[jjj912]

[quote name='Singapore Joe' timestamp='1367528894' post='6959999']
...
The tees _should_ be designed so that off the shorter tees I will be able to launch my shot to the same general landing area (preferably a bit closer to the hole) than the longer players playing from the back tees. If my group is not in that general area after our tee shots then the group behind us has to wait for my whole group to play the second and even third shots to get out of the intended landing area before playing their tee shots. When this happens hole after hole you will create a block that prevents a smooth flow of the game.
...
[/quote]

Deviating off the topic momentarily, I think the tees are supposed to set up so that each players has the same club in their hand for their second shot, not the same distance to the hole.

Back on topic, while I see what you're saying I just not sure that it really works that way. If I'm too far back, the worst case scenario is that I'm 100 yards further back than what I would be had I drove from a closer tee box. After my second shot, I will be out of the landing area and you were going to have to wait for me to play that second shot regardless. If I'm taking two or three shots to clear the landing area, then I'm having a bad hole and would be holding things up regardless of which tee box I played from.

[electroleum]

These days, I generally play from either the back tees, or the second-from-the-back tees (depending on how many teeboxes the course has). Right now I'm a mid-teen handicap, but that doesn't stop me from playing the back tees, because i have the distance to play from them. And I do so knowing that my pace of play isn't going to change depending what teebox I'm playing from...because I'm just as capable of firing a drive into the trees from the whites as I am from the blacks...haha

[Singapore Joe]

[quote name='jjj912' timestamp='1367530756' post='6960191']
Deviating off the topic momentarily, I think the tees are supposed to set up so that each players has the same club in their hand for their second shot, not the same distance to the hole.
[/quote]

That means that _ideally_ the one playing shorter tees should be ahead of the landing area of those playing the longer tees and the ones fromthe back tees can play as soon as the ones from the front get to their balls.

[quote name='jjj912' timestamp='1367530756' post='6960191']
Back on topic, while I see what you're saying I just not sure that it really works that way. If I'm too far back, the worst case scenario is that I'm 100 yards further back than what I would be had I drove from a closer tee box. After my second shot, I will be out of the landing area and you were going to have to wait for me to play that second shot regardless. If I'm taking two or three shots to clear the landing area, then I'm having a bad hole and would be holding things up regardless of which tee box I played from.
[/quote]

We have to make a difference between two scenarios: a sufficiently capable player having one bad hole vs. a group of insufficiently capable players consistently being out of position throughout a course. The former is not the end of the world and with a personal responsibility (make a bit of effort to catch up) no drama will unfold. For the latter case - especially when combined with other slow pace of play issues - a substantial block shall be unavoidable.

I would also like to point out that I am talking of populations instead of individuals. I am sure there are long hitting high handicappers and shortish hitting low handicappers but the general scheduling of the play should be build so that the the flow of play remains smooth in the presence of the majority of golfers. General principles can be tweaked to the characteristics of specific individuals but that fails if most people think of themselves as exceptional.

One topic that also hasn't come up yet is that if I (not as an individual myself but as a generic high handicapper) play tees that are too long for my game I no longer have options on most holes. I can - techncally speaking - play long tees but that means I am forced to play driver + long iron (or hybrid/wood) on most holes. If I play tees of right length I can play something else than a driver off the tee and still have a somewhat realistic chance of playing the hole in regulation. I like to have a couple of alternative ways of playing a hole instead of being forced into a single way ot playing it. That means I can hit a four iron off the tee onto the tricky fairway instead of being forced to hit the driver into the woods.

[Sawgrass]

I've played some upscale courses without colored tee markers. Just names on them. It's hard to tell which tee you're approaching from a cart. No thanks, give me color! (It's also easier to tee off from the wrong markers without the color help -- at least if you're a day dreamer like me.)

Change the forward tees from red to "manly maroon" if you'd like, but give me my color help!

[Sean2]

[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1367477853' post='6955939']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1367461948' post='6955047']
I agree with everything you said Sam. The USGA talks about the Tee it Forward initiative, but no one seems to be doing anything about it. As to your specific issue, I have a good friend I play a lot of golf with, and occasionally with his 15 year old daughter. She plays the back tees at our practice facility. If some guys are waiting they kind of roll their eyes...until she hits her tee shot. ha ha. Usually around 250 or 260 right down the middle with a baby draw. She played in the US Women's Open last year at 14, and has won a boat load of tournaments. She's probably a +4 HI.
[/quote]

Love to of seen their faces!
[/quote]

Their jaws usually drop. :-)

[Singapore Joe]

I was toying with the idea of removing the color codes and use various symbols but that would be bound to create far too much confusion. Now... what's the rating for Gimel tees? Maybe I'd rather play the Daleth which is a bit shorter. That's more or less the same length as Gin on last week's course whereas Gimel is still shorter than Ninda on last week's course.

Alternatively just keep the color codes but rename them: red = birdie; white = par; blue = bogey and black = double. "I don't like to play bogeys. Let's stick to pars or birdies instead."

But whatever name you call red, still the stigma on being women's tee sticks to the shortest tees. Something will need to be overhauled to change the mindset and that won't happen overnight. I'm actually quite surprised how strong the stigma is. I always thought of Americans being much less inclined to give a s**t of what others think and confident to do their own thing than Europeans and alike but apparently that is not the case.

edit: yet another typo.

[Shiram]

Not that I think people playing from the wrong tees is actually what causes slow play BUT - many courses already do gender neutralize tee selection.

Most resort courses I've played do not have red/white/blue. They typically have more muted colors like greys, blacks, silvers, teals, etc. They also usually do NOT include a term like 'ladies' or 'seniors' on the card. They either give them non-gender specific names like: championship, competition, resort, forward, etc. Usually the back two sets of tees are labeled something that makes it easy to avoid them--like championship or competition.

If the scorecard does not specify a recommended handicap for each set of tees - the starter usually will. The better resorts do this in a very subtle non-offensive way. They might say, the XX tees require some 250+ yard forced carries... the XX tees require 200 yard forced caries... OR the course plays really difficult from the XX tees... after they give you all the relevant info they scoot away and let you take your pick BUT you are better informed to choose. The better ones do not ask 'how far do you hit it' or 'what is your handicap' because that pisses some people off - they just give you the info to make the choice on your own.

Generally resort courses have four or five sets of tees so you can always find what that is in about your range.

I'm happy to play from whatever tees my group wants. At good courses (not great courses--just medicore/good ones) they are all rated so you can get a course handicap for any set AND you can post your round.

When I play with groups of guys and we are debating which tee to pick - I usually like to look at the par 3 yardages. If I know one or more of the guys will have to pull driver or 3w to reach one of the par 3s - I look at the next tee down. This usually works pretty well. You can also look at the shortest par 4 and see if a good driver from everyone in your group will leave them an iron in their hands -- if not look to the next tee.

I'm spoiled though. I can't remember the last time a round took 5+ hours - I just choose not to play at courses that are slow.

[xxjonesyxx]

Seems a lot simpler in the Uk, courses have 3 sets of tees, White which is for competition use only, (you are not allowed to tee it up from there in any casual rounds, whoever you are) Yellows for all casual golf and reds for the Ladies. The odd course has blues, if they hold really top class events but they aren't the norm.

Neil

[jjj912]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1367538664' post='6960815']
I've played some upscale courses without colored tee markers. Just names on them. It's hard to tell which tee you're approaching from a cart. No thanks, give me color! (It's also easier to tee off from the wrong markers without the color help -- at least if you're a day dreamer like me.)

Change the forward tees from red to "manly maroon" if you'd like, but give me my color help!
[/quote]

This is a good point. Especially, if the course has four or five sets of tees spread across just two or three tee boxes. The tee markers have to colored or otherwise marked to differentiate which set is which. It would seem like you could just count the markers, but sometimes the tee boxes are situated such that you can't see all the markers, so each set needs to be identifiable.

Here's an idea. Name each set of tees after a famous golfer (e.g. Hogan) and then have the tee markers be figurines of that golfer. Or you could name each set of tees after some feature of the course. For example, if the course was built on a old farm, you could have the tractor tees, the barn tees, etc. Then have the tractor tee markers look like a tractor and the barn tee markers look like a barn.

[jjj912]

[quote name='Singapore Joe' timestamp='1367536237' post='6960603']
...

We have to make a difference between two scenarios: a sufficiently capable player having one bad hole vs. a group of insufficiently capable players consistently being out of position throughout a course. The former is not the end of the world and with a personal responsibility (make a bit of effort to catch up) no drama will unfold. For the latter case - especially when combined with other slow pace of play issues - a substantial block shall be unavoidable.

...
[/quote]

I see the distinction you are drawing. Just based on my own experience as a golfer I think that a golfer's pace of play is not going to be materially influenced by his choice of the tees. That said, I suppose it is possible that over the course of many rounds, having each group play from an appropriate set of tees could result in an improved pace even if the time savings is minimal. There is a difference between taking 4 hours to play when you wait on every shot and taking 4.5 hours to play but you never have to wait.

[goobers80]

[quote]But whatever name you call red, still the stigma on being women's tee sticks to the shortest tees. Something will need to be overhauled to change the mindset and that won't happen overnight. I'm actually quite surprised how strong the stigma is. I always thought of Americans being much less inclined to give a s**t of what others think and confident to do their own thing than Europeans and alike but apparently that is not the case.

edit: yet another typo.[/quote]

[color=#800080]Haves you been over in America ? It is full of insecure jerks who makes your life miserable because they are miserable. In the South regions , much better attitudes though ands less attitudes over nothings. Thanks probably to *Hollywood* fakeness , culture is too much abouts beings slutty , jackasses , fake , etc . Just examples of that council guy who thinks Washington Redskins football team has *insensitive* nickname instead of dealings with real issues. I believes the Navajo has a highschool team with the nickname of the Redskins , so doubt Native Americans are cryings over a NFL football team name. [/color]

[color=#800080]Plus guys are *forced* to be *manly* all the times or they are looked at as *weak* , possibly *gay* , *less of a man* , etc. That is the probably the real issues here. Guys cannots be themselves if it somehow makes peoples think they are those things. Peoples are stupid , ands too many care what they thinks.[/color]




[quote name='jjj912' timestamp='1367590198' post='6963628']

I see the distinction you are drawing. Just based on my own experience as a golfer I think that a golfer's pace of play is not going to be materially influenced by his choice of the tees. That said, I suppose it is possible that over the course of many rounds, having each group play from an appropriate set of tees could result in an improved pace even if the time savings is minimal. There is a difference between taking 4 hours to play when you wait on every shot and taking 4.5 hours to play but you never have to wait.
[/quote]

[color=#800080]How woulds it not improve time by quite a lot if a guy moves up tees that has like 900 to 1,000 yards of difference ? Less carries that they cannots hit over , etc. I haves seen it on courses ands if it saves 5 or 10 minutes on each hole of travels to balls ands lookings for errant tee shots , that is a lot of time saved. 3 or 4 shots versus 2 or 3 per hole as wells , adds up over eighteens holes. Any *decent* golfer is mostly playings from a tee that is acceptable , i thinks peoples are talking abouts the worse golfers from wrong tees. [/color]

[color=#800080]Then adds numbers if there are two , three , or four of these guys doings it. Saved time woulds be a lot.[/color]

[QMany]

[youngstructural]

Some course up here in Mich, make the choice for you. When they set up the course for those glorious saturday and sunday mornings -- when every one who owns a club becomes their favorite golf pro for the morning ... what you'll see is the couse just moving all the colored markers up a box and not even putting markers out at the tips, basically closing them.

Not having the option to play the tips is annoying, but select your course in such a way to avoid this and it won't be. I like pushing myself to 7000+ tees ... occasionally, but 220+ yard par 3's gets old ...lol. I usually find my way into the 6600-6800 tees.

[youngstructural]

Also, I have to agree. The time savings is REAL. 4 golfers at the wrong tee box, say each need an extra 1min per hole due to travel time, missed shots, club selection ... etc.

That turns into a LOT of extra time real fast when compounded over 18 holes x number of groups ...

[Sean2]

Sam Snead once said all golfers should play the forward tees until they shoot par or better.

Can you imagine if each golfer carried a GHIN type card that they had to show the starter showing their lowest score? If they hadn't shot or par or better...of to the forward tees they go. :-)

[jjj912]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1367596868' post='6964238']
...

[color=#800080]How woulds it not improve time by quite a lot if a guy moves up tees that has like 900 to 1,000 yards of difference ? Less carries that they cannots hit over , etc. I haves seen it on courses ands if it saves 5 or 10 minutes on each hole of travels to balls ands lookings for errant tee shots , that is a lot of time saved. 3 or 4 shots versus 2 or 3 per hole as wells , adds up over eighteens holes. Any *decent* golfer is mostly playings from a tee that is acceptable , i thinks peoples are talking abouts the worse golfers from wrong tees. [/color]

[color=#800080]Then adds numbers if there are two , three , or four of these guys doings it. Saved time woulds be a lot.[/color]
[/quote]

From a distance traveled standpoint, there is not much an increase. Typically you have to walk/ride by the rearmost tees anyway to get to the forward tees. There usually aren't more than a few holes where the rearmost tees add additional length to the total distance travels.

As for forced carries, I doubt there would be more than one hole on a course where a golfer could not make the carry if she started from the tips versus a forward tee. More typical would be longer par 4 holes that play as par 5 holes (e.g. a 420 yd par 4 from a forward tees that becomes 480 yards from the back tees).

If you look at the course ratings, you'll find that the difference is about 5 or 6 strokes between the forward tees and the rear tees. An allowance for slope might add an extra stroke. So we're talking about at most a 7 stroke difference over the round. Not one or two strokes a hole. The additional strokes required is less if the golfer moves from the back tees to a middle set.

Ultimately, I don't disagree with the idea that having golfers play from the 'correct' set of tees is more efficient that having them play from the 'wrong' set. Where I disagree is the magnitude of the time savings. You mentioned a savings of 5 to 10 minutes a hole. If a foursome saved the 5 minutes per hole, that would be a time savings of an hour and half. I think that is an unrealistic expectation.

[Singapore Joe]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1367596868' post='6964238']
[quote]But whatever name you call red, still the stigma on being women's tee sticks to the shortest tees. Something will need to be overhauled to change the mindset and that won't happen overnight. I'm actually quite surprised how strong the stigma is. I always thought of Americans being much less inclined to give a s**t of what others think and confident to do their own thing than Europeans and alike but apparently that is not the case.

edit: yet another typo.[/quote]

[color=#800080]Haves you been over in America ? It is full of insecure jerks who makes your life miserable because they are miserable. In the South regions , much better attitudes though ands less attitudes over nothings. Thanks probably to *Hollywood* fakeness , culture is too much abouts beings slutty , jackasses , fake , etc . Just examples of that council guy who thinks Washington Redskins football team has *insensitive* nickname instead of dealings with real issues. I believes the Navajo has a highschool team with the nickname of the Redskins , so doubt Native Americans are cryings over a NFL football team name. [/color]

[color=#800080]Plus guys are *forced* to be *manly* all the times or they are looked at as *weak* , possibly *gay* , *less of a man* , etc. That is the probably the real issues here. Guys cannots be themselves if it somehow makes peoples think they are those things. Peoples are stupid , ands too many care what they thinks.[/color]
[/quote]

I have. I've been around quite a bit. I grew up in Northern Europe but since moving out my parents' house in 1989, the five years I lived in Singapore from 2003-2008 was the longest time I have stayed on any single continent. Currently I live on two continents and do pretty international stuff for work.

You know... USA today is only a shadow of what it was in the 90's. In the mid-90's traveling to USA form Europe was totally awesome. Airports and airlines were flexible and efficient, the hotels were fantastic, the infrastructure was in good condition and - most importantly - there was a feeling of getting things done and moving forward. All that is gone. Travel has become so bad that I avoid going to USA as much as I can and I refuse to transit in a number airports there.

I still enjoy working with Americans and I believe there are a number of thing in USA that many other countries should learn from. However, somebody has taken the joy out of America and the Americans.Whenever I go there I can not help but notice how gloomy everything has become. It's all (except the government) about cost cutting and trimming down any possible excess. Very little investment happening and very little risk taking. I know many of you out there don't want to hear this but the vibe that used to be in the USA before is now in places like Shanghai.

Maybe that sort of conditions move people to act more aggressively and in need of using whatever means they can to assert their "manliness". Tough conditions bring out the jerk in us that is easier to keep in bay when the times are better. So... to fix golf you have to fix the economy and society.

Talking of going off on a tangent! Does this give me the trophy for a statement missing the mark by the widest margin ever witnessed on this forum?

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Singapore Joe' timestamp='1367616922' post='6966236']
[

Does this give me the trophy for a statement missing the mark by the widest margin ever witnessed on this forum?
[/quote]

Yes.

Maybe keep it to golf?

[goobers80]

[quote name='jjj912' timestamp='1367612850' post='6965842']
From a distance traveled standpoint, there is not much an increase. Typically you have to walk/ride by the rearmost tees anyway to get to the forward tees. There usually aren't more than a few holes where the rearmost tees add additional length to the total distance travels.

As for forced carries, I doubt there would be more than one hole on a course where a golfer could not make the carry if she started from the tips versus a forward tee. More typical would be longer par 4 holes that play as par 5 holes (e.g. a 420 yd par 4 from a forward tees that becomes 480 yards from the back tees).

If you look at the course ratings, you'll find that the difference is about 5 or 6 strokes between the forward tees and the rear tees. An allowance for slope might add an extra stroke. So we're talking about at most a 7 stroke difference over the round. Not one or two strokes a hole. The additional strokes required is less if the golfer moves from the back tees to a middle set.

Ultimately, I don't disagree with the idea that having golfers play from the 'correct' set of tees is more efficient that having them play from the 'wrong' set. Where I disagree is the magnitude of the time savings. You mentioned a savings of 5 to 10 minutes a hole. If a foursome saved the 5 minutes per hole, that would be a time savings of an hour and half. I think that is an unrealistic expectation.
[/quote]

[color=#800080]Thinks you are nots understandings. I am mentioning things abouts *bad* , *nots so great* , *average joe* , *weekenders* , *casual* golfers. If *bad* golfers are chasing balls froms wrong sets of tees , in a foursome , that is easily five minutes. I haves sat ands timed golfers to *entertain* myself. These are nots savings 7 strokes movings up. It coulds be 15 strokes easy on some courses. I am nots gettings this off scorecards readings. I am gettings this by followings these peoples on a course. I haves played in a foursome that coulds have easily saved 5 minutes a hole with less talkings , and nonsense not abouts golfing. And coulds have easily saved 10 strokes or more if played up a set of tees. Longer clubs equals bigger and worse misses for the *common* golfers. Move up , shorter iron ... Stay back , long iron , hybrids , or woods. To me this is all *obvious* .[/color]

[color=#800080]I frequent a public city course with Six forced carries ands watch guys from whites ands blues not even close to carrying it over. That is more thans five minutes a hole saved if moved up. They all look for balls ands drop eventually. Travel times to me , means travel to ball after tee shots , thens to passenger's ball. Ands if on wrong tees , that is possible for two extra trips to two different locations with lacks of distances to play it in two.[/color]

[color=#800080]As i saids , most *decent* golfers are on right sets of tees or nots really behinds on pace of play that badly if on *wrong* tees. I believes there has to be more *bad* golfers thans *decent* .[/color]

[sergizmo]

[quote name='syenkoc' timestamp='1367424224' post='6951217']
My home course has three sets of tees, par 71:
Red: 6223
White: 6684
Blue: 7426

It has men's rating for all three tees, and women's rating for red and white. I've seen plenty of guys play off the reds - it is rated 71.2/137 from the reds for men, so it is still quite a challenge. There's definitely no stigma attached to playing the reds.

I've only seen a few ladies play off the whites, and only one play off the blues. She joined our threesome last fall... senior in high-school and she crushed all 3 of us. She was just barely long enough to play the blues (there are many 240+ forced carries from the blues), but I don't think I've ever seen crispier iron play - I swear she could hit a manhole cover from 175 with every shot.
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Your course needs another set at 5400. What percentage of women and older seniors would have fun on a 6226 yard setup? Or beginning male golfers? There are exceptions of course with longer hitting ladies (goobers) and seniors and they should be able to play whatever tees they want.

The average drive is in the 210-220 yard range (remember fellas, average dudes) for men. Being honest, that's where I hit as well, 210-220 range flat with no wind if there isn't a ton of roll. If it's baked out it goes another 10-15 maybe. Anything over 6200 on a par 72 is a no go for me.

Also agree with the point made earlier about it always being men playing from the wrong tees. I can't remember seeing a woman playing from anything other than the forward tees. Have been behind a lot of guys playing from the tips who couldn't knock it past 200-220. Come on guys.