Has *distance movements* ruined golf swings ?

[goobers80]

I hads session with my instructor ands he was talkings abouts juniors ands school players being taught to swing as hards as possible ands not really *controlling* much. He feels tryings to create speeds causes tensions. He likes the *feels* of arms move same speeds goings back and down towards impacts. No *speedings* up anythings. All speeds shoulds be at impacts ands through.

 

I tolds him how i went back to my style of playings of *softer* swings with clubs to hit distances very reliably. I will hits a 6 iron 140 yards , 9 irons go 110 yards , etc. It turns outs it is basically 30 yards off a full swings for all clubs through 3 irons. I shot a very low score recently doings this ands he was sayings how this is never really taught anymores. Peoples wants the *oohs ands aahs* from others when they hits it far , then try to hits it even farther for more *aahs ands oohs* .

 

Durings the winter , i gots caught up playings ands swingings about distances ands it only hurts my swings. It caused me to grip firmer on ways down ands it was *surprisings* how much just a little firmer woulds change impacts ands planes goings down.

 

My instructor goes against the *nonsense* abouts forcing positions ands *holding* angles , etc. For me he wants deep turn back with right shoulder ands that *triangle* stays intact , which lets me swing from insides on ways downs. Ands no *creatings* speeds , which causes tensions. Just arms beings like *dead* ands naturally going abouts. He feels too many peoples try to swing too hard for distances ands ruins things.

 

Ands taking arms outs of my swings , took me to the level of golf i wanted to be ats. At first it felts *weirds* to swing so *loose* in arms ands hands , but impacts ands the ease of it all made it worth workings on. Never thoughts i coulds control the club with such light grips. Now when i practice swings , i sometimes grip firmer on ways down to see , it leads to fat , no releases , reroutes , which was really *eye-openings* as you peoples say.

[Sean2]

I'm working on gripping the club much more lightly...it's not easy for me. I can do it on my practice swings, but it's more difficult on the "real" swing.

I also agree that trying to throttle the ball all the time is not a good thing. If you look at Tour players (no matter what tour), you never really see any of them swing out of their shoes. They all seem very controlled and almost relaxed.

[JamesBurg]

Good post, goobers80.

Both accuracy and distance depend on a body powered swing with perfect timing and very precise contact. The correct release through impact could be described as a whip like action or a slinging action. Other than that, distance will depend on how much you can easily accellerate your shoulder turn before the start of your release. That, in turn, will depend on your strength and flexibility.

[HappyGolf]

Depends on the h/cap and physical capability of the player.... 90% of golfers don't have enough length to even play the course so they might aswell swing as hard as they can. I could probably knock 20mph off my swing and still hit further than most... but not far enough FOR ME. My tempo is what it is... it's not something I would specifically want to change, not even in another players swing - in fact there's a lot that could do with speeding up a little bit

[parmark]

If you want to feel what a light grip feels like, remove your pinkie fingers off the grip. Sounds crazy but really works for me. Allows tension free swing, and let's club swing thru the ball very freely. Might take a few swings to really feel it, but give a try, it does work.

[chrisgilly09]

The ball getting a lot harder changed everything

[Huntster]

Can't remember where I heard this but it is easier to teach someone to swing full out and then dial it back to a good level of control vs swinging a slower controlled swing then trying to increase speed later.

[parmark]

Now you tell me Huntster!!! Darn my luck

[rhh7]

I honestly believe I wasted 50 years of my golfing life by swinging too hard at the ball. I never developed a consistent swing, never learned to hit greens in regulation. Now I am swinging smooth, developing proper tempo, and hitting fairway woods off the deck for the first time! Monday morning, I reached the two longest par-5's on my course with 7-Wood, 7-Wood, 7-iron...and 7-Wood, 7-Wood, PW. Left my Driver and 3-Wood at home, and had a really enjoyable round.

[goobers80]

[quote]I'm working on gripping the club much more lightly...it's not easy for me. I can do it on my practice swings, but it's more difficult on the "real" swing.

I also agree that trying to throttle the ball all the time is not a good thing. If you look at Tour players (no matter what tour), you never really see any of them swing out of their shoes. They all seem very controlled and almost relaxed. [/quote]

[color=#800080]It is *very* hards. It almost feels like there will be no controls or power, but i feel the *whip* through the ball as my hands ands wrists release. In facts i still catch myself right afters releasing , firming up the wrists ands fingers out of stupid habits. I think some of these replies gaves me my answer abouts the *distance movements* . I finds it foolish personally. I believes now if you are puttings *effort* into hitting the balls , doings somethings wrong.[/color]


[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1368057106' post='6995350']
Depends on the h/cap and physical capability of the player.... 90% of golfers don't have enough length to even play the course so they might aswell swing as hard as they can. I could probably knock 20mph off my swing and still hit further than most... but not far enough FOR ME. My tempo is what it is... it's not something I would specifically want to change, not even in another players swing - in fact there's a lot that could do with speeding up a little bit
[/quote]

[color=#800080]Probably because those 90% are on wrong tees to starts with. I woulds say over 90% of golfers do nots understand what *throttle backs* evens mean. 90% probably do nots even know what properly swingings as hards as you can means. Points was , where *speeds* are being created. I woulds say over 90% probably swings from top to creates speed , which is a bad ways. I do nots evens understand the ball beings harder things. I can do easy swings that go lower , more on line ands takes a hop ands spins to a stop. It still seems to me that the ones who control the ball best , win the most tournaments. [/color]

[color=#800080]Technique gives distances that others coulds *use* . I believes the peoples pursuings distances through speeding up swings wrongly are hurtings their games. I am sure some other person coulds explain maybe what i am sayings better.[/color]

[color=#800080]This has nothings to do with *tempo* at all , besides maybe downswings tempo. My *soft* swings are still speedings up through impacts, just less *efforts* .[/color]

[color=#800080]Goings by what i haves done personally , i woulds teach somebody to swing *soft* , then to hits the ball farther , speed up impacts. [/color]

[jmvargas]

i believe there are 2 ways to get distance...

swing harder and hope you hit it flush OR swing easier and hit it flush more consistently...

..in my younger days i used to follow the former route but as i get older the latter route is easier on the body and gives better results...

[neil72]

I'm with you on this one. I'm scratch and i play a lot of tournaments, and most of my opponents are supprised at how much club i hit. I will often dial back 1 or two clubs from what i know i can hit. I can get much better distance control hitting 1 or 2 clubs more into greens than i really need to. This works great when i play in tournaments around shorter courses (<6500). Unfortunately more and more courses like to be up around 7000 yards to be considered tournament worthy and then i can't really afford to hit is soft, or it takes much more will power which i don't always have.

[The Pearl]

Perhaps golf teachers, clubmakers, and trackman wizards should promote two swings speeds. Maybe "True Swing Speed" is your max capable swing speed a golfer can generate whereby the swing still looks like a swing and the ball reacts somewhat like it is supposed to. The second swing speed could be "Ideal Swing Speed" which after trial and error, results in the swing speed that results in the most solid contact with the straightest results. I have a swing speed radar machine and if I simply swing it as hard as a I can without regard to anything I can hit about 95mph. If I am really warmed up and trying to swing hard, but still try to get some results I can hit reach about 91 mph with about a 50% or so less success rate. The ball is all over the place and there are plenty of off center hits. Sure, once in a while the stars will align and I will pop a beauty out there, but not often enough to score well. If I focus on balance, relaxation (tension free), and tempo, I can hit fairway after fairway. For me this is at about 85mph.

As Neil touched on above, I am applying this logic to the rest of the game and trying to take 1 or 2 extra clubs on approach shots. The results are quite astonishing in terms of GIR and as Neil mentioned distance control.

Within my playing peer group, they are all swinging for the fences and it has not helped them at all in the scoring department.

[AndyC]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368056094' post='6995246']
[color=#800080]My instructor goes against the *nonsense* abouts forcing positions ands *holding* angles , etc. For me he wants deep turn back with right shoulder ands that *triangle* stays intact , which lets me swing from insides on ways downs.[/color][/quote]

Please ask your instructor if keeping a tri"angle" intact is holding an angle.

A slow swing isn't any more accurate than a fast swing given the same swing characteristics. The problem is that many golfers can't maintain their good swing charateristics when swinging faster. It is a learned skill and needs to be practiced correctly. Just forfeiting distance and scaling back can work great on certain courses but the ability to hit 8 irons when others are hitting 6 irons sure doesn't hurt.

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]Differences betweens maintaining ands *forcing* . *Forcing* / *holding* means creatings speeds in wrong areas ands/or tension to him. I am pretty sure peoples know of the *angles* i was mentionings. [/color]

[color=#800080]Was talkings abouts *forcing* a hold on something. Maintaining a *triangle* to the top is really nots forcing anything. If anything it makes the arms respond more *naturally* to a shoulder turn in my opinions. Forcing a wrist hinge (angle) is somethings i was talkings abouts. Forcing a hold to creates *lag* is another example. Peoples tryings to *hold* somethings on a downswing is a *bad* ideas. Taking words outs of contexts is silly. I clearly did nots say *slow* swings. The whole points is a *controlled* swing that goes like 5-10 yards less at most , compared to a faulty *speeds* swings that is nots producings repeated solid strikes.[/color]

[color=#800080]Swinging faster is through impacts. Any speeds added in transitions ands the swing is *ruined*. If i cans *softly* hit a six iron 140 yards , instead of a *full* 9 iron. I am goings *softer* six iron all the times. It still spins enoughs to stop quickly. A softer six iron is really no *harder* to hits thans a full 8 iron anyways. It is all in peoples heads. [/color]

[color=#800080]This is nots a website full of + handicap mini tour / pga tour players. Most are higher handicaps thans that lookings to get better. Seems by everything on here *controlling* your swings ands ball (not shapes) is a big lost *art* . For many of these peoples on here , a controlled swing woulds probably make the balls go farther for thems. Repeated solid strikes versus their old not so solid strikes. It will feel more effortless , possibly *slower* to them , but it is just as *fast* . The speeds will be in the *proper* area however.[/color]

[color=#800080]If *soft* swings means *slow* to you , maybe nots understanding the golf swing. A *soft* swing has plenty of speeds in it through impacts. It is nots a *full* swings. Howevers , a *full* swing shoulds still feel *soft* in my opinions. It is all abouts the speed at the ball ands after , nots before (which most amateurs do wrong) . Control the speeds , control the shot i say. Just like a bunker shots. This is abouts proper techniques. How will anybody learn that by swingings too hards every time ? Anythings else is creatings tension , speeds in wrong places , bad finishes , etc.[/color]

[RBImGuy]

[color=#800080]Normally you have two swings, one for crusing speed (scoring) and one you can add some extra speed when needed.[/color]
[color=#800080]still a loose/firm grip and relaxed wrist and arms are needed for maximum benefit.[/color]

[color=#800080]Most common mistake is to tight grip, and hit impulse also reinforce that due to many want speed but since their technique is lacking they add tension (grip tightens) and slow down the swing.[/color]
[color=#800080]this also limits feedback to what to do until the player learns awareness about their grip pressure.[/color]
[color=#800080]adding 20-40 or more yards with change of grip pressure and fixing tempo is common.[/color]

[Lefty_3Jack]

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1368065618' post='6996392']
i believe there are 2 ways to get distance...

swing harder and hope you hit it flush OR swing easier and hit it flush more consistently...

..in my younger days i used to follow the former route but as i get older the latter route is easier on the body and gives better results...
[/quote]
Assuming swinging easier allows you to hit it flush more often. Focusing on solid contact does not necessarily slow things down. If you try to "take a little off" your swing (although everyone is different) you may find that you swing "weaker" instead of slower. I think everyone should swing hard enough to keep everything in sync and stay balanced. For some of us the body gets so far out ahead that swinging "slower" throws you off even more than swinging too hard. I watch some people at the range who swing soooooooo slow back and through that there is no way you could keep your body still long enough to sync everything up!

[juststeve]

We have a trackman at our club that is free for members to use any time its not in use by others. A couple of years ago I suggested to some of the usuals that we you the trackman to try to find our own optimal swing speed. The one that produced the best combination of distance, accuracy and shot to shot consistency. Ten guys plus I actually did it and the results were along the lines of Goobers intuition. We all found our Goldilocks speed, not too fast, not too slow, just right. In 10 of the 11 cases that speed was slower than the one the individual was accustomed to using. How much slower? It was a pretty consistent reduction in speed amounting to about a club or a club and a half less.

After we had done this almost everyone experienced a period of better scoring. A couple of years later almost everyone is back to trying to hit the ball too hard.

Good post Goober.

Steve

[AndyC]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368124192' post='7000586']
[color=#800080]Differences betweens maintaining ands *forcing* . *Forcing* / *holding* means creatings speeds in wrong areas ands/or tension to him. I am pretty sure peoples know of the *angles* i was mentionings. [/color]

[color=#800080]Was talkings abouts *forcing* a hold on something. Maintaining a *triangle* to the top is really nots forcing anything. If anything it makes the arms respond more *naturally* to a shoulder turn in my opinions. Forcing a wrist hinge (angle) is somethings i was talkings abouts. Forcing a hold to creates *lag* is another example. Peoples tryings to *hold* somethings on a downswing is a *bad* ideas. Taking words outs of contexts is silly. I clearly did nots say *slow* swings. The whole points is a *controlled* swing that goes like 5-10 yards less at most , compared to a faulty *speeds* swings that is nots producings repeated solid strikes.[/color]

[color=#800080]Swinging faster is through impacts. Any speeds added in transitions ands the swing is *ruined*. If i cans *softly* hit a six iron 140 yards , instead of a *full* 9 iron. I am goings *softer* six iron all the times. It still spins enoughs to stop quickly. A softer six iron is really no *harder* to hits thans a full 8 iron anyways. It is all in peoples heads. [/color]

[color=#800080]This is nots a website full of + handicap mini tour / pga tour players. Most are higher handicaps thans that lookings to get better. Seems by everything on here *controlling* your swings ands ball (not shapes) is a big lost *art* . For many of these peoples on here , a controlled swing woulds probably make the balls go farther for thems. Repeated solid strikes versus their old not so solid strikes. It will feel more effortless , possibly *slower* to them , but it is just as *fast* . The speeds will be in the *proper* area however.[/color]

[color=#800080]If *soft* swings means *slow* to you , maybe nots understanding the golf swing. A *soft* swing has plenty of speeds in it through impacts. It is nots a *full* swings. Howevers , a *full* swing shoulds still feel *soft* in my opinions. It is all abouts the speed at the ball ands after , nots before (which most amateurs do wrong) . Control the speeds , control the shot i say. Just like a bunker shots. This is abouts proper techniques. How will anybody learn that by swingings too hards every time ? Anythings else is creatings tension , speeds in wrong places , bad finishes , etc.[/color]
[/quote]

So soft doesn't mean slow? So with that thinking you can swing fast and hit it soft, no?

The type of shot to hit is dictated by the conditions. Trying to hit "soft" shots to hard greens with tucked pins is pretty difficult. The softer you hit a ball the less spin it will have and the harder it will be to control once it hits the green.

[jmvargas]

to the OP...what's with all the s'ssss??

[Sean2]

When I try to "slow" my swing down I find I actually decelerate. The golf swing has me...confused. :-)

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]It is nots *slowing* downs though. If you swings a backswing slower ands transitions down with same speeds , the speeds shoulds come down at the bottom as the body wants to release the energies.[/color]

[quote][color=#0000CD]When I try to "slow" my swing down I find I actually decelerate. The golf swing has me...confused. :-) [/color][color=#800080] [/color][/quote]
[color=#800080] [/color]

[color=#800080]The Flopper person saids it better. The techniques of where speeds shoulds be in a swings.[/color]

[quote]

[color=#0000CD]Normally you have two swings, one for crusing speed (scoring) and one you can add some extra speed when needed.
still a loose/firm grip and relaxed wrist and arms are needed for maximum benefit.

Most common mistake is to tight grip, and hit impulse also reinforce that due to many want speed but since their technique is lacking they add tension (grip tightens) and slow down the swing.
this also limits feedback to what to do until the player learns awareness about their grip pressure.
adding 20-40 or more yards with change of grip pressure and fixing tempo is common.[/color]
[/quote]


[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368147880' post='7002812']

So soft doesn't mean slow? So with that thinking you can swing fast and hit it soft, no?

The type of shot to hit is dictated by the conditions. Trying to hit "soft" shots to hard greens with tucked pins is pretty difficult. The softer you hit a ball the less spin it will have and the harder it will be to control once it hits the green.
[/quote]

[color=#800080]*Soft* to me is nots addings tensions. My versions of *soft shots* is lower shots that want to slightly draw , take big bounce up ands stop quickly. They are nots *slow* . You are nots *swinging* fast. The ways i set up to the balls for these shots dictates flights ands heights. It is a slower swing speeds , but it is nots slowing downs your swings. You shoulds be releasings and speeding up after impacts. [/color]

[color=#800080]Ask 100 amateurs what they thinks swingings fast means. I woulds haves to believes not many will say where the speeds in golf swings shoulds be. How many woulds speed up hips ? Speed up arms ? Try to tense up wrists to *holds* lags ? , etc. [/color]

[color=#800080]Words are nots always strong things , but my points was that amateurs seekings *distances* that companies are promising is ruining golf swings. Added to the facts that their speeds are in the wrong places in their swings. That is my feelings from watchings hundreds of golfers all arounds.[/color]

[goobers80]

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1368147991' post='7002826']
to the OP...what's with all the s'ssss??
[/quote]

[color=#800080]I prefer esses , ands what is with the lacks of yours ?[/color]

[Petter Player]

I've had a slogan teaching alpine skiing: If you didn't fell once a day, you have not used your skills and woun't get better.

If one holds back the distance especially off the tee, but also on fairway, not going for the greens they've set boundaries to where their game could and would go.

The repertoire of shots will increase by the distance gained and will eventually give more opportunities to play aggressive, when shots might be gained.

About slow swinging of the club. Do you think Ernie Els is swinging slow? No, he's not. It just looks like there is no efort, but as he says: I swing as hard as I can.

If the most power come from big muscles and relatively short joint moves in the center body and feet one's hands react, the power seems to come out of nowhere.

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]This is abouts proper techniques which seems to be big time lost on peoples on this websites. Is Ernie off balance 90% or more of the times ? Are most amateurs ? Pretty much so. As the Flopper person saids ands as i haves as well , it is where you swing as hards as you can. It is nots from the top.[/color]

[color=#800080]Why does nobody read ands understands nobody is talkings abouts swingings *slow* . I also swings as hards as i can , but in the *proper* places. Stances ands ball positions dictates the flights of balls ands distances. The points beings the *distance movements* i believes has made peoples swing poorly tryings to creates speeds. So who is talkings abouts swinging *slow* ?[/color]

[color=#800080]However , if takings a lesser swings from fairways consistently hits yardages over ands over , it woulds be foolish to swing harder with less clubs. There is still speed through impacts , only thing lowered is *swing speeds* . I haves choice of *full* 8 irons or *softer* five irons , goings with the five irons. Unless somethings absolutely forced me to use that 8 irons. When i am 130 yards from the pin , i am *uber* aggressive , but with my 7 irons. I haves no reason to hits *full* wedge.[/color]

[color=#800080]Just curious where anybody saids that from fairways you do nots go for greens ? Plus this is nots skiing. Yet , i haves seen many a golfer just abouts *fall downs* from swinging too fast ands creatings speeds in wrong places. I woulds not *teach* players to fall down at least a rounds or tell them they are nots doing it right.[/color]

[borker]

I'm sure it has hurt swings. Trying to exhurt near 100% effort with your body will always be more inconsistent and taxing. Over the long run I feel it will even get worse. We have prominate internet gurus teaching us to swing so hard, the front foot should spin out and sells a device to 'feel' it. Then the club makers sell distance as does the ball companies. It is everywhere. Even announcers and TV seem to get into it.

In the long run, I can't say what the results will be from all this on young players bodies, but I can't imagine it will be ok. I suspect more injuries or not as many being able to play into their 50's. I mean can you see Rory playing at 50 on the Champions Tour with that violent motion and a 5'10" jacking 310+ yard drives and 300y 3wds all the time? That must be taxing on the body. Players like Dustin have already dealt with sideline injuries. More will come for these players, trust me. Even worse are the weekend players who don't have access to trainers and such like they do yet trying to do the same.

But regardless of that, I DO know it is ruining golf on TV for me at least. It has become a boring show of jack it out as far as you can and just eating up par4 to where dumb wedge is left. And Par5 2nd shots are like 4-5i at times. Or ball is in rough and just gouge it out of there.

I believe golf is at a crossroad never before in its history. Mainly because of technology but also because of the athletes taking up the game. I don't have a solution, but I want to see ballstriking (for all the irons in the bag), course management and top notch short game play win tournaments. Not the ones who you had 50% fairways hit, 60% GIR, but were on TV and jacking 330y drives into the rough.

[RBImGuy]

[color=#800080]I played with several once you hit longer than them they all try to hit longer.
Naturally they cant create more speed with ease so they try to muscle it which only makes them wilder and often shorter. (technique limited)
Adding speed is mainly done letting the swing happens and relaxed wrists and hands and arms, letting the tempo sequence up the chain and then once your aware what happens then you can add speed. There is a balance between distance and accuracy, once that conjunction points meets you hit it as long and as accurate you can with your current technique, most when they go for more distance overextends their ability for accuracy.

The solution is simple, learn your limits, improve mobility, strength and flexibility then technique.
If your not consistent golf is really hard to play for fun.[/color]

[HappyGolf]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368065550' post='6996386']

[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1368057106' post='6995350']
Depends on the h/cap and physical capability of the player.... 90% of golfers don't have enough length to even play the course so they might aswell swing as hard as they can. I could probably knock 20mph off my swing and still hit further than most... but not far enough FOR ME. My tempo is what it is... it's not something I would specifically want to change, not even in another players swing - in fact there's a lot that could do with speeding up a little bit
[/quote]

[color=#800080]Points was , where *speeds* are being created. I woulds say over 90% probably swings from top to creates speed , which is a bad ways.[/color]
[/quote]


I 100% agree.

What would be better to see is people practicing slower, shorter swings and building up the speed (balance?) as they gradually improve - but hardly anyone does that, they just swing flat out and wonder why they can't hit the ball with any regularity.

I don't think people necessarily need to learn a 'slower' swing... they just need to learn how to make a good one!

[DLiver]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368155628' post='7003658']
[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1368147991' post='7002826']
to the OP...what's with all the s'ssss??
[/quote]

[color=#800080]I prefer esses , ands what is with the lacks of yours ?[/color]
[/quote]

Greats answer!

[AndyC]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368155517' post='7003650'][color=#800080] [/color][color=#800080]*Soft* to me is nots addings tensions. My versions of *soft shots* is lower shots that want to slightly draw , take big bounce up ands stop quickly. They are nots *slow* . You are nots *swinging* fast. The ways i set up to the balls for these shots dictates flights ands heights. It is a slower swing speeds , but it is nots slowing downs your swings. You shoulds be releasings and speeding up after impacts. [/color]

[color=#800080]Ask 100 amateurs what they thinks swingings fast means. I woulds haves to believes not many will say where the speeds in golf swings shoulds be. How many woulds speed up hips ? Speed up arms ? Try to tense up wrists to *holds* lags ? , etc. [/color]

[color=#800080]Words are nots always strong things , but my points was that amateurs seekings *distances* that companies are promising is ruining golf swings. Added to the facts that their speeds are in the wrong places in their swings. That is my feelings from watchings hundreds of golfers all arounds.[/color]
[/quote]

So you have me confused. A soft shot is not adding tensions?? Tensions to what? Presumably your regular swing would not have the tensions you speak of. So is a soft shot your normal swing at SLOWER speeds? Certainly a good skill to have. But watching the greatest golfers in history you will notice that an overwhelming majority of them swing/swung hard and fast. Bobby Jones, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Norman, Watson, Woods,and Mickelson just to name a few. Most players that I see trying to hit it far don't have a golf swing to ruin in the first place. And yes speeding up the arms will increase your swing speed.The problem is to how best to speed up the arms without losing solid contact.