Has *distance movements* ruined golf swings ?

[SoCalTitleist]

[quote name='Huntster' timestamp='1368062245' post='6995894']
Can't remember where I heard this but it is easier to teach someone to swing full out and then dial it back to a good level of control vs swinging a slower controlled swing then trying to increase speed later.
[/quote]

Everytime i try and underclub and swing 3/4 i always chunk it or do something stupid. 100% is much easier for me.

[hpr3]

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1368147991' post='7002826']
to the OP...what's with all the s'ssss??
[/quote]


[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1368147991' post='7002826']
to the OP...what's with all the s'ssss??
[/quote]

1800 + posts. You can't be that dumb!

[QMany]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368165627' post='7004158']
[color=#800080]Why does nobody read ands understands nobody is talkings abouts swingings *slow* .[b] I also swings as hards as i can[/b] , but in the *proper* places. [/color]
[/quote]
Because you said you swing "softer." Soft is the opposite swinging harder. That is the confusion.
[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368056094' post='6995246'][color=#800080]I tolds him how [b]i went back to my style of playings of *softer* swings[/b] with clubs to hit distances very reliably. I will hits a 6 iron 140 yards , 9 irons go 110 yards , etc.[/color]
[/quote]

[jmvargas]

[quote name='hpr3' timestamp='1368213076' post='7007930']
[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1368147991' post='7002826']
to the OP...what's with all the s'ssss??
[/quote]


[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1368147991' post='7002826']
to the OP...what's with all the s'ssss??
[/quote]

1800 + posts. You can't be that dumb!
[/quote]


....just read the OP's profile and i apologize for my ignorance...

was just puzzled that's all....nothing personal..

[goobers80]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1368213564' post='7007976']
[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368165627' post='7004158']
[color=#800080]Why does nobody read ands understands nobody is talkings abouts swingings *slow* .[b] I also swings as hards as i can[/b] , but in the *proper* places. [/color]
[/quote]
Because you said you swing "softer." Soft is the opposite swinging harder. That is the confusion.
[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368056094' post='6995246'][color=#800080]I tolds him how [b]i went back to my style of playings of *softer* swings[/b] with clubs to hit distances very reliably. I will hits a 6 iron 140 yards , 9 irons go 110 yards , etc.[/color]
[/quote]
[/quote]

[color=#800080]Slow is the opposites of fast ? Soft is nots *slow* . If you take 3/4 shots , are you deceleratings into the balls ? Or is it the same speeds as a *full* swings , just beings that it is 3/4 , less swing speeds overall. [/color]

[color=#800080]Soft was wrong words probably. Better woulds be *shorter* swings , but only contact is a little *softer* due to less swing speeds. The club is still *speedings* up ands never did i say i swings *slower* . Every shot shoulds be *soft* / no tensions in body.[/color]

[quote][color=#0000CD]So you have me confused. A soft shot is not adding tensions?? Tensions to what? Presumably your regular swing would not have the tensions you speak of. So is a soft shot your normal swing at SLOWER speeds? Certainly a good skill to have. But watching the greatest golfers in history you will notice that an overwhelming majority of them swing/swung hard and fast. Bobby Jones, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Norman, Watson, Woods,and Mickelson just to name a few. Most players that I see trying to hit it far don't have a golf swing to ruin in the first place. And yes speeding up the arms will increase your swing speed.The problem is to how best to speed up the arms without losing solid contact.[/color][/quote]

[color=#800080]Tension comes froms tryings to add speeds in wrong places.. No swings ever shoulds haves *tensions* . If you know golf , you know where adding tensions ruin swings. As saids , *shorter* swings with *softer* contacts due to less club heads speeds was betters way to type it. I am confused how peoples saids that meant *slow* swings down. That never shoulds happen. Honestly i do nots really care abouts those other players. Mickelson is poor examples though , as he is too erratic to list with those ball strikers. Pretty sure they were nots 100% full outs with approach shots for most of careers. Driver maybe. I prefer a swings i can puts in fairways. If that means 10 yards less from driver , so be it. [/color]

[color=#800080]Points was , (again) , most amateurs shoulds focus on controlling a swings first. That is why their swings suck.[/color]

[nick.woods76]

goobers have you ever been to a PGA tour event?

The Pros are Swinging HARD!!!!!

They are just really really good and have really nice swings so they maintain balance and posture and all that but they are ripping it

You can't teach speed. When My youngsters start im giong to teach them hit it as hard as they can - you can't teach that.

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]Hard compared to what ? There are so many misused words by peoples in here. Hads you read what peoples haves been sayings , it has nothings to do with anythings. The peoples looking to gets better on here are nots PGA tour players ?[/color]

[color=#800080]You cans *easily* teach swinging as hard as *one can* . It is abouts proper techniques. The Flopper person has been sayings it well in here. Teach the kids to swing hard wrong , chances at ruinings their swings for life. Anybody can swing *harder* , *faster* , whatevers , once they learn how to control a swings properly. That is what i am seeings wrong on here ands out on ranges ands courses. Improper techniques. Tour players haves better techniques ands better fitness ands flexibility / strength things thans common amateurs. Swinging *lighter* to them is better thans some amateurs swingings as hards as possible. They are doings it wrong.[/color]

[color=#800080]No way the tour players are swingings as hard as possible all the times. Been more thans at a PGA tour events. Haves met some ands former players. I haves talked to some ands some teachers who haves been arounds tour players. Tee shots perhaps. Drive ands gouge methods work on most courses. I hears the word *control* a lot , nots *swing as hards as i can all the times* . [/color]

[color=#800080]To me this is all backwards on what peoples are sayings , but that is me. I saids things ands no needs to keep repeatings it. The ego behinds distance is obvious. The attention only feeds that. I feels some are so misguided they rather play worse ands swing *hard* the wrong ways , than *dial it back somes* ands learn how to play control / scoring golfs. Let me swings as hard as possible from the back tees , when i coulds move up , swing with *control* ands shoot better scores. Why would peoples not want that ? This is nots abouts Tour players. [/color]

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='nick.woods76' timestamp='1368241372' post='7010236']
goobers have you ever been to a PGA tour event?

The Pros are Swinging HARD!!!!!

They are just really really good and have really nice swings so they maintain balance and posture and all that but they are ripping it

You can't teach speed. When My youngsters start im giong to teach them hit it as hard as they can - you can't teach that.
[/quote]

Does Fred couples swing hard?
Hard vs soft so what gives?
Speed is created with torque and force and mass. The more soft and relaxed the harder you hit.
Its called technique.
Since amateurs and even low level tour pro´s tendency is to have a tight grip and even increase the pressure in the grip you cant hit it hard that way.
Golfers want to hit it long, are obviously obsessed with distance instead of scoring.
Since the golfer often lacks awareness about their own tension, their own grip impulse, have a flawed technique, they have built compensations that steers the club in various ways, so its seldom if ever doable to hit it long for them.
So hitting it more soft, slowing down taking a club extra allows a better precsion to happen and better result.
If one add tension (Hard) you miss it more even as a tour pro.

and as far I havent encounter any amateur that holds the grip too soft yet.

[AndyC]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368239150' post='7010066']


[color=#800080]Tension comes froms tryings to add speeds in wrong places.. No swings ever shoulds haves *tensions* . If you know golf , you know where adding tensions ruin swings. As saids , *shorter* swings with *softer* contacts due to less club heads speeds was betters way to type it. I am confused how peoples saids that meant *slow* swings down. That never shoulds happen. Honestly i do nots really care abouts those other players. Mickelson is poor examples though , as he is too erratic to list with those ball strikers. Pretty sure they were nots 100% full outs with approach shots for most of careers. Driver maybe. I prefer a swings i can puts in fairways. If that means 10 yards less from driver , so be it. [/color]

[color=#800080]Points was , (again) , most amateurs shoulds focus on controlling a swings first. That is why their swings suck.[/color]
[/quote]

Less clubhead speed doesn't mean slower? So if you were swinging a club at 110 mph and now you are swinging softer at 95 mph it isn't slower?

Mickelson is a great example. He is number 9 in all-time tour wins with 41. I would love to be that erratic. He is able to create many shots because of the speed of his swing.

What most amateurs should do is learn the fundamentals. Control is something that comes with good fundamentals. But like most every other sport you need to train for what you want. If you sprint on the track team you certainly wouldn't train by jogging 4 miles per day. If you want to hit the ball far you need to train by swinging hard. The best golfers in the world have the ability to swing hard and maintain control.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368290967' post='7012066']
[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368239150' post='7010066']
[color=#800080]Tension comes froms tryings to add speeds in wrong places.. No swings ever shoulds haves *tensions* . If you know golf , you know where adding tensions ruin swings. As saids , *shorter* swings with *softer* contacts due to less club heads speeds was betters way to type it. I am confused how peoples saids that meant *slow* swings down. That never shoulds happen. Honestly i do nots really care abouts those other players. Mickelson is poor examples though , as he is too erratic to list with those ball strikers. Pretty sure they were nots 100% full outs with approach shots for most of careers. Driver maybe. I prefer a swings i can puts in fairways. If that means 10 yards less from driver , so be it. [/color]

[color=#800080]Points was , (again) , most amateurs shoulds focus on controlling a swings first. That is why their swings suck.[/color]
[/quote]

Less clubhead speed doesn't mean slower? So if you were swinging a club at 110 mph and now you are swinging softer at 95 mph it isn't slower?

Mickelson is a great example. He is number 9 in all-time tour wins with 41. I would love to be that erratic. He is able to create many shots because of the speed of his swing.

What most amateurs should do is learn the fundamentals. Control is something that comes with good fundamentals. But like most every other sport you need to train for what you want. If you sprint on the track team you certainly wouldn't train by jogging 4 miles per day. If you want to hit the ball far you need to train by swinging hard. The best golfers in the world have the ability to swing hard and maintain control.
[/quote]

you forget that with better impact you gain efficiency which even if slower can go longer.
speed and distance freaks might not understand how you create speed and efficiency has a great deal to do with that.

[goobers80]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368290967' post='7012066']
Less clubhead speed doesn't mean slower? So if you were swinging a club at 110 mph and now you are swinging softer at 95 mph it isn't slower?


[/quote]

[color=#800080]The club head speeds is slower. A Golf Swing is NeveR slowing downs or you are doings it wrong. Played golf channel tournament today ands used a five irons for a 180 yard shots ands later a 150 yards shot. Neither were slowed down.[/color]

[color=#800080]This post hads nothings to do with tour players. It is common amateurs either speedings up or slowings down the swings incorrectly. Mostly speedings it up because everythings is pointed towards distances over controls. [/color]

[color=#800080]As for Phil , i believes he has good hands or never woulds have been as goods as he has beens. How much of his career has beens *saved* with his short games ? However , look how inconsistent he is compared to the others that were listed.[/color]

[color=#800080][color="#0000cd"]Bobby Jones, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Norman, Watson, Woods,and Mickelson. [/color][/color]

[Petter Player]

The key is to swing hard and faster, not hitting it hard.

I think it is possible to speed up the swing for anyone out there. The problem is mostly, that the faster one tries, stress on the word 'try', the slower they get at impact. That's due their intension to speed up things all the way thru their swing and sequence braking down.

If you want to speed up the clubhead where it counts, at impact, you need to hold some back in back swing and transition to have any reservs left to fire thru the ball.

I think speed could be teached, but it is very hard to get people to understand the basics, where speed is generated.

Why do you think lean thin kids can fire their clubheads into the 110 mph-range, yet they seem to have no muscles, nor power in their bodies? And why can I, a middle-aged man have an occational 320-yds drives and average around 280 yet I've taken up golf in my adulthood?

The fundamentals of throwing motion is the answer, using your whole body from the sole of your feet up to your arms and hands in proper motion, in the right order in sync and rythm.

[AndyC]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368327965' post='7015304']
[b][color=#800080]"The club head speeds is slower. A Golf Swing is NeveR slowing downs or you are doings it wrong. Played golf channel tournament today ands used a five irons for a 180 yard shots ands later a 150 yards shot. Neither were slowed down.[/color][/b]"

I didn't say that the swing was being slowed down. I said that one swing is slower than the other. You certainly aren't going to hit a 5 iron 180 or 150 yards with the same swing speed.

[b][color=#800080]"This post hads nothings to do with tour players. It is common amateurs either speedings up or slowings down the swings incorrectly. Mostly speedings it up because everythings is pointed towards distances over controls."[/color][/b]

So your recommendation is to disregard what the best players in the world have done for years? I really can't think of any skill where you wouldn't be well-served by trying to emulate the best.

[b][color=#800080]"As for Phil , i believes he has good hands or never woulds have been as goods as he has beens. How much of his career has beens *saved* with his short games ? However , look how inconsistent he is compared to the others that were listed."[/color][/b]


No doubt Phil can work magic with his short game but you don't win 41 times being a slouch from tee-to-green.[/quote]

[Rockminer]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368378308' post='7017566']
[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368327965' post='7015304']
[b][color=#800080]"The club head speeds is slower. A Golf Swing is NeveR slowing downs or you are doings it wrong. Played golf channel tournament today ands used a five irons for a 180 yard shots ands later a 150 yards shot. Neither were slowed down.[/color][/b]"

I didn't say that the swing was being slowed down. I said that one swing is slower than the other. You certainly aren't going to hit a 5 iron 180 or 150 yards with the same swing speed.

[b][color=#800080]"This post hads nothings to do with tour players. It is common amateurs either speedings up or slowings down the swings incorrectly. Mostly speedings it up because everythings is pointed towards distances over controls."[/color][/b]

So your recommendation is to disregard what the best players in the world have done for years? I really can't think of any skill where you wouldn't be well-served by trying to emulate the best.

[b][color=#800080]"As for Phil , i believes he has good hands or never woulds have been as goods as he has beens. How much of his career has beens *saved* with his short games ? However , look how inconsistent he is compared to the others that were listed."[/color][/b]


No doubt Phil can work magic with his short game but you don't win 41 times being a slouch from tee-to-green.[/quote]
[/quote]

AndyC; Are you telling me that you don't understand what Goobers is saying? She's explained it well, as far as I'm concerned. She also said that it applies more to amateurs and weekend hacks than it does to the best players in the world. She's talking about [b]speed in the right places[/b] , do you disagree with that?


[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368290967' post='7012066']
If you sprint on the track team you certainly wouldn't train by jogging 4 miles per day.
[/quote]

You also wouldn't sprint at 110% of your ability for the entire practice either.

[AndyC]

[quote name='Rockminer' timestamp='1368379681' post='7017674']AndyC; Are you telling me that you don't understand what Goobers is saying? She's explained it well, as far as I'm concerned. She also said that it applies more to amateurs and weekend hacks than it does to the best players in the world. She's talking about [b]speed in the right places[/b] , do you disagree with that?[/quote]

The title of this thread is "Has distance movements ruined golf swings". So do most amateurs and weekend hacks have swings that can be ruined or should be afraid of ruining? Hardly. I would say that players who are guilty of ruining swings by trying to add distance are good amateurs and pros trying to get a competitive edge. Speed in the right places is something that most amateurs struggle with whether they are swinging fast or slow or "soft" or hard.

[Rockminer]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368453515' post='7023970']
The title of this thread is "Has distance movements ruined golf swings". [b]1. So do most amateurs and weekend hacks have swings that can be ruined or should be afraid of ruining? Hardly.[/b] I would say that players who are guilty of ruining swings by trying to add distance are good amateurs and pros trying to get a competitive edge.[b]2.[/b] [b]Speed in the right places is something that most amateurs struggle with whether they are swinging fast or slow or "soft" or hard[/b].
[/quote]

I think you're missing the point. Nothing wrong with that as you're entitled to your opinion. This is the opening sentence from her OP, and explains what the thread is about IMO.


[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368056094' post='6995246']
[color=#800080]I hads session with my instructor ands he was talkings abouts juniors ands school players being taught to swing as hards as possible ands not really *controlling* much. He feels tryings to create speeds causes tensions. He likes the *feels* of arms move same speeds goings back and down towards impacts. No *speedings* up anythings. All speeds shoulds be at impacts ands through.[/color]
[/quote]

see bolded above:
1. most amateurs and hacks are exactly the ones she's talking about, although it could apply to anyone ( juniors and school players in her example ) She's talking about learning the correct way to hit the ball, with control, instead of trying to kill the ball every swing. She is saying people are not being given the proper instructions on the swing. I see most amateurs and hacks trying to swing out of their shoes, bringing tension into the swing and actually slowing their swing down, while, at the same time, spraying the ball all over the course.

2. Can we agree that it's harder to control the ball, with an all out swing, as per your quote below?


[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368117825' post='6999830']
The problem is that many golfers can't maintain their good swing charateristics when swinging faster. It is a learned skill and needs to be practiced correctly.
[/quote]

And taught correctly, which is the point of her thread.

No one is saying that someone can't hit with "distance movements". what we're saying is, if one has no control of it, then what good is it doing.

[againstthegrain]

Juniors have a couple periods in their life where there body can learn to swing faster. They need to be encouraged to swing as fast as they can during those periods to maximize their lifelong potential. They have plenty of time to revert to swinging at less than 100% later on. Look at junior hockey or baseball players ......do you think they're coaches are telling them to hit slap shots or swing at 60% of their potential?

[Rockminer]

[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1368458062' post='7024462']
Juniors have a couple periods in their life where there body can learn to swing faster. They need to be encouraged to swing as fast as they can during those periods to maximize their lifelong potential. They have plenty of time to revert to swinging at less than 100% later on. Look at junior hockey or baseball players ......do you think they're coaches are telling them to hit slap shots or swing at 60% of their potential?
[/quote]

Fair enough, not sure I agree with your 60% number.

1. If the hockey player is making every slap shot at 80-85%, and can't hit the broadside of a barn at 100%
2. The baseball player is making contact at 80-85% and can't touch a pitch at 100%

What do you think a coach is going to want to see?

I'm not saying that no one can handle 100% swings and neither is Goobers. What i'm saying is, one needs to learn control and then ramp it up to where they can swing as fast as their control will allow. Whether it's 100% or 85%. Not everyone can step up to a tee box and blast one 300 yds. off of the tee, but I sure do see a lot of people try, mostly with disastrous results.

[againstthegrain]

First my comments are only wrt to juniors, not a mature adult learning the game of golf or hockey or baseball. Secondly there is a time to learn technique and there is performance. If you don't agree w 60% put any number you you wish below 100%. If the coach has the knowledge and is interested in the the long term potential he'll have the kids swinging out of their shoes in practice. Come game day they might take it down a notch to post a score.

[Rockminer]

[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1368459932' post='7024646']
First my comments are only wrt to juniors, not a mature adult learning the game of golf or hockey or baseball. Secondly there is a time to learn technique and there is performance. If you don't agree w 60% put any number you you wish below 100%. If the coach has the knowledge and is interested in the the long term potential he'll have the kids swinging out of their shoes in practice. [b] Come game day they might take it down a notch to post a score[/b].
[/quote]

So you agree that swinging out of your shoes doesn't do much good if one is looking to post a score ( assuming they can't control the all out swing )?

I used your hockey and baseball scenarios, I never specified age.

Once again, I'm not saying someone can't control a 100% swing. I'm saying that there are far fewer of them that can actually do it compared to how many try.

[againstthegrain]

What I'm saying is training for speed is beneficial at 2 periods when your a junior, consequently if a junior misses those 2 periods to build speed they'll NEVER reach full potential.

[goobers80]

[color=#800080]Hockey was a bad examples. [color=#800080]I played hockey ands i watched many junior kids learnings techniques. Terrible example though. A Slap shot is supposed to be hards ands is wildly inaccurate many times. A Driver is more likes slap shots. You wants control , you turn to a wrist shots or snap shots. Slower , more accurates ways of putting it at a targets. Things with slap shots are that they are goings so fast , a deflection off anythings makes the goalie have no chances at times. Most pure goal scorers haves great wrist shots/snap shots. Ands slower / accurate slap shots. Howevers , a driver will go far with flexibility ands techniques , nots swingings as hard as you can as a junior.[/color][/color]

[color=#800080]There is never a *times* for reachings potentials. That is for the peoples who want a excuse. Speeds come from techniques ands fitness/flexibility , nothings else. It is nots abouts wildly swingings outs of shoes in practices , whatever that dumb saying means.[/color]

[color=#800080]The distance *movements* i am talkings about is the companies ands tv tellings average players that distance is the goal of golfing. That is wrong.[/color]

[color=#800080] It takes proper techniques. I never learned to swings *hard* until i was outs of junior ages. I play better ands longer thans most peoples in golf. It happened recently. This instructor deals with big junior events ands stuffs. I believes him over anybody on here. He has done basically everythings on , with the PGA tour ands below. [/color]

[AndyC]

[quote name='Rockminer' timestamp='1368456392' post='7024292']

[color=#ee82ee][b]1. most amateurs and hacks are exactly the ones she's talking about, although it could apply to anyone ( juniors and school players in her example ) She's talking about learning the correct way to hit the ball, with control, instead of trying to kill the ball every swing. She is saying people are not being given the proper instructions on the swing. I see most amateurs and hacks trying to swing out of their shoes, bringing tension into the swing and actually slowing their swing down, while, at the same time, spraying the ball all over the course.[/b][/color]

First of all, it is your opinion about "learning the correct way to hit a ball". I have heard about more great players who started out swinging heavy clubs as hard as they could than stories about players taught how to swing with control.



[color=#ee82ee][b]2. Can we agree that it's harder to control the ball, with an all out swing, as per your quote below?[/b][/color]

"The problem is that many golfers can't maintain their good swing charateristics when swinging faster. It is a learned skill and needs to be practiced correctly."

What is an all-out swing? For me, it would mean swinging as hard as I can while still maintaining good balance. There are certain aspects of ball flight I can control better with faster swings and others with softer swings. So no, I don't agree with your premise based on my definition of an all-out swing.


[color=#ee82ee][b]And taught correctly, which is the point of her thread.[/b][/color]

No, I think the point was that trying to swing faster or hit it further ruins many golf swings. I think it's far easier to add control to a swing than to add speed.
[/quote]

[goobers80]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368466199' post='7025602']
[color=#EE82EE][b]And taught correctly, which is the point of her thread.[/b][/color]

No, I think the point was that trying to swing faster or hit it further ruins many golf swings. I think it's far easier to add control to a swing than to add speed.
[/quote]

[color=#800080]No , my point has beens twisted ands my words twisted to support your own theories. So , you win ands are much more right than everybody else. This is on a websites full of higher handicaps ands faulty swings. Just look at the instructions forums. Those swing videos. The peoples so focused on MaX distances insteads of controlled repeatable distances. The companies focused on nothings but distances. That is the movements i am talkings abouts. False advertising to sell clubs , then eventually ruin swings. This is abouts them working on control ands technique to hits it far ands accurate. Lose 5 -10 yards , gain control ? Seriously , how are peoples arguing this ? Since as Flopper person saids , most woulds probably GaiN yards with the technique ands speeds in the right places. [/color]

[AndyC]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368468790' post='7025952']

[color=#800080].......... then eventually ruin swings.......... [/color][/quote]


Your implication is that a hacker or amateur has a swing that shouldn't be ruined. That's completely illogical. Conversely I believe that a good player could ruin his swing trying to increase distance. If I am not mistaken Slicefixer said or wrote that he lost his swing at one point chasing extra distance.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368470675' post='7026206']
Your implication is that a hacker or amateur has a swing that shouldn't be ruined. That's completely illogical. Conversely I believe that a good player could ruin his swing trying to increase distance. If I am not mistaken Slicefixer said or wrote that he lost his swing at one point chasing extra distance.
[/quote]

Modern swing plans out fast in conjunction betwen distance and accuracy.
at around 270 yards the main dispersion starts to fall apart for modern swing systems.

Its also a guy thing, more about hitting long than to play the game.
since a lot estimate their distances is 30+ more yards than it is its a fair assumption that a golfer likely will slow down their swing more than to actually speed it up and control it.
doing that will increase dispersion and raise scores.
Its as true with pro´s as well with amatuers, main difference amateurs will continue slow down it and loose their game but think they do things better as they hit harder....
called nutty logic.

[againstthegrain]

[quote name='goobers80' timestamp='1368463207' post='7025194']
[color=#800080]Hockey was a bad examples. I played hockey ands i watched many junior kids learnings techniques. Terrible example though. A Slap shot is supposed to be hards ands is wildly inaccurate many times. A Driver is more likes slap shots. You wants control , you turn to a wrist shots or snap shots. Slower , more accurates ways of putting it at a targets. Things with slap shots are that they are goings so fast , a deflection off anythings makes the goalie have no chances at times. Most pure goal scorers haves great wrist shots/snap shots. Ands slower / accurate slap shots. Howevers , a driver will go far with flexibility ands techniques , nots swingings as hard as you can as a junior.[/color]

[color=#800080]There is never a *times* for reachings potentials. That is for the peoples who want a excuse. Speeds come from techniques ands fitness/flexibility , nothings else. It is nots abouts wildly swingings outs of shoes in practices , whatever that dumb saying means.[/color]

[color=#800080]The distance *movements* i am talkings about is the companies ands tv tellings average players that distance is the goal of golfing. That is wrong.[/color]

[color=#800080]It takes proper techniques. I never learned to swings *hard* until i was outs of junior ages. I play better ands longer thans most peoples in golf. It happened recently. This instructor deals with big junior events ands stuffs. I believes him over anybody on here. He has done basically everythings on , with the PGA tour ands below. [/color]
[/quote]


Your confusing training w performance. Did you ever stop to think that maybe hitting slap shots developed your rotational speed and now you're able to apply it to golf? I don't believe there is any sport more like golf than hockey so I think it's a pretty good example.

[Rockminer]

[quote name='AndyC' timestamp='1368470675' post='7026206']
Your implication is that a hacker or amateur has a swing that shouldn't be ruined. That's completely illogical.
[/quote]

No, what shes saying is that hacks and amateurs are the way they are because they try and swing outside of their potential.

Post #18 is what shes talking about.

[Rockminer]

[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1368480158' post='7027388']
Your confusing training w performance.
[/quote]

How so?


[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1368459932' post='7024646']
If the coach has the knowledge and is interested in the the long term potential he'll have the kids swinging out of their shoes in practice.
[/quote]

What does swinging out of ones shoes do that flexibility training and technique can't do?

And since we're so far off topic now, when are the only two times in life that a junior can get better or risk never being at full potential?

[againstthegrain]

[quote name='Rockminer' timestamp='1368481790' post='7027548']
[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1368480158' post='7027388']
Your confusing training w performance.
[/quote]

How so?


[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1368459932' post='7024646']
If the coach has the knowledge and is interested in the the long term potential he'll have the kids swinging out of their shoes in practice.
[/quote]

What does swinging out of ones shoes do that flexibility training and technique can't do?

And since we're so far off topic now, when are the only two times in life that a junior can get better or risk never being at full potential?
[/quote]

Your right developing rotational speed in juniors has nothing do w golf or hockey, or baseball. You can take a middle-aged hyper flexible woman throw in some technique and she'll be hitting it 300 yds in no time. Find someone else to argue with - I'm done.