Serious questions, so sick of this....

[johnnybogey]

Where to start?

 

Been playing for about 6 years. Used to play a ton, that was before I got married and had a child. Don't get me wrong, NOT complaining!!! Nowadays, I am lucky if I get 5 rounds a year in. The lack of time to play is not due to being married and having kid but because I live in NYC so actually getting out of the city for a round is a project in itself.

 

ok, so why this post?

 

I've gone through maybe 8 sets of since picking up this game!!! I don't feel so guilty because I know there are some of you on these forums that would put me to shame, you know who you are!!! sickos!!!

 

The crazy thing is, I never really got "properly" fit for any of the irons I've played. I've used Ping webfit which is a good starting point but certainly not the "proper" way to do it. Even had a trackman fitting session with a reputable fitter here in the NYC metro area (had only played about two years at that point and was having lower back issues. damn, getting old) :angry2: When I was quoted for the custom built set (Taylor Made burner irons), my jaw dropped. :shok: I can certainly understand that business owners need to make a living but I guess I was just being cheap, actually, I like to think I was being frugal. :D

 

So I proceed to order a set of Pings from Discount Dan's (you guys rock!!!) with the specs from my fitting which were all over the place.

 

I played them and after every bad round (which is like 90% of the time), I always reached the same conclusion, it MUST be the irons!!! :D on to the next set. vicious cycle. again, I know most here can relate.

 

So now for the serious questions!!!

 

This time around, I am going to do it the right way and actually get "properly fit" and will purchase whichever clubs the fitter recommends, even if it's not Ping. But I have a feeling, subconsciously, I am going down this route because A) those PING G25 irons look SWEET!!! and B) Discount Dan's lost their Ping account.

 

So maybe this is a blessing in disguise.

 

1) How much of a markup do fitters typically apply to iron sets, if any?i.e. if I ended up with the G25's with a standard shaft or even upgraded shaft. Ping is essentially building the set. I guess I am being a cheapo again but DAMN, diapers and formula are expensive (mind you, one child only!!!)

 

and the more serious question:

 

2) For those that got a custom built set of irons after being "properly" fit, are you still gaming this set? My concern is, I don't want to be in this position again when the G30's or G35's come out. Maybe the simple answer is, stop reading these forums!!! It's funny, I used to search the forums for equipment reviews and I would read posts by forum members who would say something along the lines of "this club is the best, will never get kicked out of the bag!!!" yet, when you look at their signature, that club is no where to be found!!! LOL.

 

OK, all done for now. Thanks in advance for your input.

[robengel]

most places will not charge you for a fitting if you get the clubs there, it is included in the cost. If you're apprehensive, maybe look for a demo day where there will be OEM reps on hand to do fittings and discuss products with you. Good luck!

[gvogel]

If you go to a lot of places to be fit for Ping, you will get fit for length of club (usually standard), lie angle, grip size, and shaft flex.

Problem is, there is so much more to a golf shaft than just the proper flex. Where are you going to get a handle on that? Probably not at a big box store.

Getting a super fit is going to take a lot of work on your part. However, the long-term benefits will be worth it, both in terms of playability of your clubs, and the confidence that you don't need to start over again.

[johnnybogey]

Thanks for the tips guys, one follow up question:

[size=4]How good are the OEM reps at demo days compared to professional fitters running their own business? Is it basically hit or miss?[/size]

[size=4]My goal here is to spend the money now to get it done right rather than constantly questioning and spending more money later on.[/size]

[tadams1975]

[quote name='johnnybogey' timestamp='1368711113' post='7046384']
Thanks for the tips guys, one follow up question:

[size=4]How good are the OEM reps at demo days compared to professional fitters running their own business? Is it basically hit or miss?[/size]

[size=4]My goal here is to spend the money now to get it done right rather than constantly questioning and spending more money later on.[/size]
[/quote]

It has been my experience that most OEM reps are just hired to travel around to demo days and do the "quick fit" for customers with stock shaft options. Rarely is an OEM rep going to have different shaft options for you to try, but it is getting better now with all the adjustable clubs. They are not going to take static measurements and look at spin rates, ball flight, LA, etc. During the demo days, they do not have the time to spend with one customer to do a full fitting that it sounds like you are looking for. Again, IMO most are not capable of this anyways.

Having said that, your best bet would be to do a search in your area for a solid fitter that carries multiple brands you can try. Set up an appointment and spend the time to get properly fit. If you can find a fitter with a launch monitor, like the trackman, the better. If there are none, there are still plenty of good fitters and PGA pros that can properly fit you. Also I recommend that your fitting be conducted outside so you can actually see ball flight, distances, and trajectory. Hitting off a mat indoors will provide you with numbers, but this does not translate to golf course conditions. You need to see how the clubs actually perform with turf interaction and such.

If you find a good fitter in your area remember to keep an open mind going into it and let the fitter do his job. Find a couple of sets of irons you like at address and let him work from there on the right shaft and specs for you. You might be surprised with what ends up being the best fit for you. Once you get properly fit your specs should not change unless you change your swing, so if you would want to order new clubs, you can always order the new ones with the same specs.

[mikpga]

Stop the search for the right equipment and devote your efforts toward improving your game.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='johnnybogey' timestamp='1368709622' post='7046222']

Where to start?

[/quote]

The place to start is the next time you have the time to head out of the city for a golf related reason, this time head over to see Tim Mosel in Denville, NJ (973-586-1700 - www.timmosel.com ). Your post indicates you have doubts about your equipment and getting the most for your money. For a very long time, Tim has been routinely removing golfers' doubts about their clubs because he is one of the very best in the whole country at doing that. And he's been doing it for a very reasonable price so you don't have to have doubts about that part of it either.

TOM

[mikpga]

Playing golf for 6 years...

Now playing about 5 rounds a year...

Been through 8 sets...

Stop the insanity...

[Dpavs]

Agree... if you are having that much problem with your irons no fitting will help. A few lessons with an instructor would be a much better investment.

[johnnybogey]

Thanks for the tips guys.

As for lessons, I completely understand. However, what I want to try and accomplish (not sure if this is even possible) is to eliminate the "not properly fitted" variable from the equation.

I hit my G15's pretty good for the most part. But in the back of my head, I always wonder, "are these Ping ZZ65 shafts soft stepped 1x" holding me back? Should I have gotten them soft stepped 2x? I selected this shaft based on reading these forums, that was it. Loss of distance due to shafts not fitting my swing profile? i.e. I swing my driver around 95mph I think. When purchasing those shafts, I never considered "load", etc.. and the multitude of other variables that does into a proper fitting.

I guess I just want to ensure that I am not missing out by not having the equipment that matches my swing. Wasted so much money by not doing it right the first time. Lesson learned.

[imas]

[quote name='TomWishon' timestamp='1368716024' post='7046850']
[quote name='johnnybogey' timestamp='1368709622' post='7046222']
Where to start?

[/quote]

The place to start is the next time you have the time to head out of the city for a golf related reason, this time head over to see Tim Mosel in Denville, NJ (973-586-1700 - www.timmosel.com ). Your post indicates you have doubts about your equipment and getting the most for your money. For a very long time, Tim has been routinely removing golfers' doubts about their clubs because he is one of the very best in the whole country at doing that. And he's been doing it for a very reasonable price so you don't have to have doubts about that part of it either.

TOM
[/quote]

Another recommendation for Tim Mosel. Great guy that knows his stuff.

[TeeBonZ]

Stop switching out sets. I know that generally goes against the Golfwrx code but trust me. My irons used to be my strongest part of my game. I started swapping out/trying different sets of irons and my iron play went to $hit! It takes an adjustment period with any set. Get fitted for irons and give them some real time to get used to them. You can't just jump ship after 1-2 bad rounds, especially when you're only playing 5-6 rounds a year.

[johnnybogey]

Wanted to add my iron set journey below as to how stupid I've been with swapping out iron sets.

Just a a reference, my swing speed is arounf 95mph with driver. I guess I have a moderate to fast transition.

In chronological order:

Mizuno MX23 - looks nice, bought off the rack with DG S300. Quickly found that these clubs were out of my league, shafts way too stiff

Mizuno MX900 - off the rack with Dynalite Gold SL S300. Damn these things are heavy!!!

Cobra S9 - bought off the rack with nippon NS regular flex. Very forgiving but these shafts felt really soft, spraying shots all over the place

Ping Rapture - I thought this was it!!! so forgiving but with the CS Lite regular flex shafts, I was hitting moon balls, everything was high and would just drop from the sky.

Ping G5 - with DG SL R300. I thought, ok, these ping heads are high launching so I think low launch shaft will help with ball flight. I like lighter shaft so I went with DG SL R300. Out on the course, still moon balls. I concluded that the lighter weight shaft enables me to swing faster, as such, I need stiff flex.

Ping G10 / I10 combo - with AWT stiff shafts. (Hated this shaft, end of story).

Ping G15 - zz65 soft stepped 1x


ok, so only seven sets!!!

[Smokey1226]

[quote name='johnnybogey' timestamp='1368716884' post='7046922']
Completely understand. However, what I want to try and accomplish (not sure if this is even possible) is to eliminate the "not properly fitted" variable from the equation.

[/quote]
Heres where u might be going backwards. Your swing now, and the one after a couple months of lessons might be completely different. So your numbers that you are showing now, could be very different after your swing is back to where u'd like it.

[SparkyC]

STOP with the clubs excuse, spend the money working with a pro. Your current clubs can barely be called used, they are not the issue unless they are shafted with a flex that is way off. Buying new clubs is wasting your money.

[justplayhonestgolf]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1368716102' post='7046858']
Playing golf for 6 years...

Now playing about 5 rounds a year...

Been through 8 sets...

Stop the insanity...
[/quote]

Ugh, seriously, this is ridiculous. The combination of willingness to drop 1k on an iron set EIGHT TIMES but not wanting to do a basic fitting is just absolutely absurd. It reminds me of a guy i played with a few weeks ago at my club. He had a demo version of a new 913D and hit terrible drives on 1, 3 and 4 with it (2 is a par 3), he then actually drove back to the clubhouse to get a different driver. After 7 holes he drove back again to get a different demo 3 wood as his 913F "didn't work" so he needed a new one (problem was clearly 100% swing) One of the guys in our group was playing pxis and hitting the ball crazy high. The guy with a terrible swing asked what shafts they were and why the guy used them and when he said it was so he could hit the ball high, the guy with a bad swing AGAIN drove back to the clubhouse to get an iron with a pxi in it. Needless to say he hit worm burners into the woods all day. People are just so weird about equipment. Spend the money on lessons, fittings and rounds, not on buying set after set of clubs while playing less than once a month...?

[johnnybogey]

appreciate the feedback guys.

I want to do it right!!! proper fitting, lessons, and play.

If it means simply reshafting my G15 irons, I am fine with that.

Moving out to the burbs this fall so much easier access to local courses which means, I hope, more rounds.

[richard t]

Many have given excellent advice. Here's a question. If you were looking for a new car and you found what you like. Let's say it fits YOU perfectly. Do you jump up next year because they change the taillight position or sleek dow a fender. FInd what you are looking for, get them properly fitted then forget the clubs and work on YOUR game. I played Eye2s until I5s. Saw the new ones ( I's, G's) as they came along. Tried them. No better-no worse. Got I5s because I had the 'bug.' Played them and now have I20s. I do like them very much, but I could just as easily be playing the Eye2s, and do sometimes. Point is Ping had several sets in between and after Eye2s. If you find a set of irons, YOU can play well with them and YOU can overcome every opportunity to be led to believe the next set is the second coming then YOU will be able to reach the goals YOU set. Remember pros get paid huge sums to play this or that. We don't! When I look around at the really good players I know they are not fretting over this year's model or whether they should get the latest and greatest. Who knows you may not even like the I/G 30s or 35s when they do come along. #1 Proper fit, #2 Lessons and Finally, the clubs. Only way to improve. FWIW.

[ricar1610]

I think we just want new stuff and the problem is that golf clubs, though expensive, are justifiable in the short term. I am battling this right now. I got fit for i20's last summer, never bought them - but almost have 10 times. I finally have come to realize - at least for a week or so - that my irons are fine. The thing is I have hit several PERFECT shots with every iron and club in my bag. So therefore it is me, not the clubs.
But, if you can afford it and just like changing clubs then do it. I changed my wedges yesterday for the first time in years as far as brand. Went from Vokeys to Cleveland 588 RTG CB - I just like the shape and the feel better for some reason.

The key is once you get fit - stick with them and trust the fitting. It took me 5-6 months to really get used to my 913D3 and RIP shaft - But once I have gotten used to it I love it. Takes time. Get fit - get lessons and enjoy the game - and your family - they grow up way too fast...

[Raven Logics]

Getting your lie angle fitted is the most important aspect in irons. Don't go too stiff in your shaft flex, but even then in irons that's not going to make a huge difference to you. Length, in my opinion, is only going to change the distance you hit the clubs and not the consistancy (if you can't hit a 7i because it's 0.25" too long, then how are you going to hit you 6i or lower?). Before you look at any of that, take a reality check. While fitting and equipment can help to a certain point, the phrase "It's the indian and not the arrow" is often undervalued. No iron will look good if you put a bad swing on it.

Take an HFR camera out and have a friend record a few of your swings each time you play. I would suspect that you're swing is not consistent - it doesn't matter if you are playing G15, G25, Burner Super-duper GI Plus, Callaway so-X'ing-easy-they-are-almost cheating or any other model, you can only fix the problem by changing the way you swing the club. I would suggest that if you only have time for 5 fair-weather rounds per year, then buy something at the beginner's end and enjoy your rounds for the the opportunity to play and not the result. If you want to get serious, work hard and learn some more then get fitted once you have a swing to fit into.

[Pepperturbo]

During the first ten years of playing golf I was fitted "3" times for irons. One at the LGS, one by a club fitter and the 3rd was at MacGregor's mfg facility, where after high level fitting, they built a fully custom 2-LW set of blade irons for me; they were not cheap either. I still have the set of MacGregor custom irons in the garage too, and played them the longest over that ten years. As you might see, I am not big on changing irons or wedges or putters, because it takes considerable time to reacquaint myself with new equipment.

From those experiences, I deduced multiple fittings bordered on a waste of time and money, if swing mechanics are not ingrained. In other words, if your mechanics are evolving, costly fittings are going to bring inconsistent results. Its better to build swing mechanics first, then get irons you want.

During the last ten years, I've essentially had two sets of irons in play; each was purchased off the rack, that includes my current irons which were purchased in 2007. My swing mechanics have been grooved for about ten years; so its much easier to forgo fittings, and pull clubs off the rack and find they work well. The only aspects that haven't fallen into place have drivers and 3wds, and their graphite shafts, which all have been aftermarket.

I repeat; most fittings are a waste of money, as there is not guarantee what is fitted will properly fit your mechanics very long, if you're still learning.

[hardten]

[quote name='johnnybogey' timestamp='1368709622' post='7046222']
Where to start?

Been playing for about 6 years. Used to play a ton, that was before I got married and had a child. Don't get me wrong, NOT complaining!!! Nowadays, I am lucky if I get 5 rounds a year in. The lack of time to play is not due to being married and having kid but because I live in NYC so actually getting out of the city for a round is a project in itself.

ok, so why this post?

I've gone through maybe 8 sets of since picking up this game!!! I don't feel so guilty because I know there are some of you on these forums that would put me to shame, you know who you are!!! sickos!!!

The crazy thing is, I never really got "properly" fit for any of the irons I've played. I've used Ping webfit which is a good starting point but certainly not the "proper" way to do it. Even had a trackman fitting session with a reputable fitter here in the NYC metro area (had only played about two years at that point and was having lower back issues. damn, getting old) [size=4] When I was quoted for the custom built set (Taylor Made burner irons), my jaw dropped. [/size] [size=4] I can certainly understand that business owners need to make a living but I guess I was just being cheap, actually, I like to think I was being frugal. [/size]

[size=4]So I proceed to order a set of Pings from Discount Dan's (you guys rock!!!) with the specs from my fitting which were all over the place.[/size]

[size=4]I played them and after every bad round (which is like 90% of the time), I always reached the same conclusion, it MUST be the irons!!! [/size] on to the next set. vicious cycle. again, I know most here can relate.

So now for the serious questions!!!

This time around, I am going to do it the right way and actually get "properly fit" and will purchase whichever clubs the fitter recommends, even if it's not Ping. But I have a feeling, subconsciously, I am going down this route because A) those PING G25 irons look SWEET!!! and B) Discount Dan's lost their Ping account.

So maybe this is a blessing in disguise.

1) How much of a markup do fitters typically apply to iron sets, if any?i.e. if I ended up with the G25's with a standard shaft or even upgraded shaft. Ping is essentially building the set. I guess I am being a cheapo again but DAMN, diapers and formula are expensive (mind you, one child only!!!)

and the more serious question:

2) For those that got a custom built set of irons after being "properly" fit, are you still gaming this set? My concern is, I don't want to be in this position again when the G30's or G35's come out. Maybe the simple answer is, stop reading these forums!!! It's funny, I used to search the forums for equipment reviews and I would read posts by forum members who would say something along the lines of "this club is the best, will never get kicked out of the bag!!!" yet, when you look at their signature, that club is no where to be found!!! LOL.

OK, all done for now. Thanks in advance for your input.
[/quote]
Playing since 1975 and I am one of those "sicko" you referred to,LOL.having owned over 25 sets. Played two rounds with new X Hot Pros and liked them but sold them anyway for something else. FWIW, I think the thrust being put into fitting is real BS. Unless you have a particular physical trait or issue once you have your desired flex , length,and lie your good to go. Vast majority I feel can play sticks off the shelf . JMHO.

[Eastflava0]

Um.... Is this a serious topic?

Top tour pros who play a gazillion times a year, have all the technology in the world to fit their clubs to their game, struggle.....

And you are blaming your clubs that you are not properly fit and been playing for 6 years at 5 rounds a year?

Even Sergio would be saying your complaining is ridiculous.

[johnnybogey]

[quote name='Eastflava0' timestamp='1368733738' post='7049010']
Um.... Is this a serious topic?

Top tour pros who play a gazillion times a year, have all the technology in the world to fit their clubs to their game, struggle.....

And you are blaming your clubs that you are not properly fit and been playing for 6 years at 5 rounds a year?

Even Sergio would be saying your complaining is ridiculous.
[/quote]

Wasn't really a serious topic.

Where in any of my posts above was I complaining? or blaming my clubs?

simply asked two questions which are contained in my initial post.

[The Pearl]

Listen to Mr. Wishon. I did.

[AlexRockChalk]

I forced myself to take lessons before getting new irons. At the beginning i was dead set on getting the r11 irons because they had such a wide range of handicaps. After i developed the swing i wanted i got fit for my mp-59's but I specifically wanted those clubs. When I first got them I struggled hitting the ball but now that I play 3-4 times a week I couldn't be happier with them. I get the players look but with some forgiveness. I'm glad I was able to get the club that suited my eye the most and have made them work for me.

[OriginalgolferX]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1368716102' post='7046858']
Playing golf for 6 years...

Now playing about 5 rounds a year...

Been through 8 sets...

Stop the insanity...
[/quote]

This is what I was thinking. I wonder what that figures out to on a price per round basis??

I have been playing golf for 18 years....been through 4 iron sets....have to stick to an iron set for awhile to be able adapt to the different nuances...esp if you are using off the rack clubs and can't adujt SW's to match each set.

Driver's on the other hand.......I have been through 4 in the last year alone!!

[Flyers99]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1368723883' post='7047846']
During the first ten years of playing golf I was fitted "3" times for irons. One at the LGS, one by a club fitter and the 3rd was at MacGregor's mfg facility, where after high level fitting, they built a fully custom 2-LW set of blade irons for me; they were not cheap either. I still have the set of MacGregor custom irons in the garage too, and played them the longest over that ten years. As you might see, I am not big on changing irons or wedges or putters, because it takes considerable time to reacquaint myself with new equipment.

From those experiences, I deduced multiple fittings bordered on a waste of time and money, if swing mechanics are not ingrained. In other words, if your mechanics are evolving, costly fittings are going to bring inconsistent results. Its better to build swing mechanics first, then get irons you want.

During the last ten years, I've essentially had two sets of irons in play; each was purchased off the rack, that includes my current irons which were purchased in 2007. My swing mechanics have been grooved for about ten years; so its much easier to forgo fittings, and pull clubs off the rack and find they work well. The only aspects that haven't fallen into place have drivers and 3wds, and their graphite shafts, which all have been aftermarket.

I repeat; most fittings are a waste of money, as there is not guarantee what is fitted will properly fit your mechanics very long, if you're still learning.
[/quote]

Although this view may not be popular, I agree 100%. Your swing, playing a few times a year, is evolving and I would bet different each time you play. I was fit 3 times over 3 years and each fitting was slightly different. My swing is not 100% repeatable but close. I was fit for irons .5 upright, 1.0 flat and .5 flat. Some other things were just off as well.

My recommendation is to get lessons to try and get a somewhat repeatable swing before you get fit. If you are looking at clubs then If you like the G15's I would not waste money on the 25's. Take the 15's and get your lie angle checked and get a new shaft in the correct flex and lenght. You will save a few hundred bucks and you can use that for your lessons and practice.

[jons1]

[quote name='johnnybogey' timestamp='1368709622' post='7046222']
Where to start?

Been playing for about 6 years. Used to play a ton, that was before I got married and had a child. Don't get me wrong, NOT complaining!!! Nowadays, I am lucky if I get 5 rounds a year in. The lack of time to play is not due to being married and having kid but because I live in NYC so actually getting out of the city for a round is a project in itself.

ok, so why this post?

I've gone through maybe 8 sets of since picking up this game!!! I don't feel so guilty because I know there are some of you on these forums that would put me to shame, you know who you are!!! sickos!!!

The crazy thing is, I never really got "properly" fit for any of the irons I've played. I've used Ping webfit which is a good starting point but certainly not the "proper" way to do it. Even had a trackman fitting session with a reputable fitter here in the NYC metro area (had only played about two years at that point and was having lower back issues. damn, getting old) When I was quoted for the custom built set (Taylor Made burner irons), my jaw dropped. I can certainly understand that business owners need to make a living but I guess I was just being cheap, actually, I like to think I was being frugal.

So I proceed to order a set of Pings from Discount Dan's (you guys rock!!!) with the specs from my fitting which were all over the place.

I played them and after every bad round (which is like 90% of the time), I always reached the same conclusion, it MUST be the irons!!! on to the next set. vicious cycle. again, I know most here can relate.

So now for the serious questions!!!

This time around, I am going to do it the right way and actually get "properly fit" and will purchase whichever clubs the fitter recommends, even if it's not Ping. But I have a feeling, subconsciously, I am going down this route because A) those PING G25 irons look SWEET!!! and B) Discount Dan's lost their Ping account.

So maybe this is a blessing in disguise.

1) How much of a markup do fitters typically apply to iron sets, if any?i.e. if I ended up with the G25's with a standard shaft or even upgraded shaft. Ping is essentially building the set. I guess I am being a cheapo again but DAMN, diapers and formula are expensive (mind you, one child only!!!)

and the more serious question:

2) For those that got a custom built set of irons after being "properly" fit, are you still gaming this set? My concern is, I don't want to be in this position again when the G30's or G35's come out. Maybe the simple answer is, stop reading these forums!!! It's funny, I used to search the forums for equipment reviews and I would read posts by forum members who would say something along the lines of "this club is the best, will never get kicked out of the bag!!!" yet, when you look at their signature, that club is no where to be found!!! LOL.

OK, all done for now. Thanks in advance for your input.
[/quote]


have you heard the saying about putting lip stick on a pig?

I may save you a few bucks here, so I'm just going to say it like it is. There's no fitting process on earth that can fix a swing that's not fundamentally correct. If you play poor 90% of the time, then I know you have swing issues. Pros could pick up any set of any specs and hit great shots. It doesn't make as much difference as you have been led to believe. Pings webfit is an averages measurement, but it's pretty accurate imo. Then you had a fitting using trackman, which would be very accurate. So I don't see how getting additional fittings is at all the issue here. Just go to a local shop and hit off a lie board to determine the lie angle you need, usually can be done for free, and order a set with the right color code from Ping. Honestly, you don't need anything more than that at this point.

[MrFlapjack]

I think 3 things need to happen to end the madness:

1. You have to get fit properly, shafts, lofts, lies, length, flex etc

2. You have to love the look of the club/clubs that are in the bag, so that the next new shiny club promising false hope doesn't creep into your mind, and wallet.

3. You need to bond with your clubs...

one more:

4. You need to realize that golf companies are there to make money first and foremost. They will make big claims in order to place doubt in your mind, and keep you guessing about whether or not you are able to play yout best golf with what you currently have. It's the same as getting emails about dong enlargement (I wish my wife would stop giving them my address) #girth-ier