Jim Waldron's Teaching Philosphies

[Kiwi2]

We are what we think and what we think is conditioned by our life journey. Jim Waldron's journey has been an interesting one which has resulted in philsophies developed with a blend of two cultures, those of the East and those of the West. That makes him unique amongst golf instructors. Who else in golf teaching has trained in the martial arts, NLP, Pilates, Yoga,alexander Technique, Rolfing and Cogntive therapy, as well as golf?

 

This thread is a place for Jim to share his philosophies with you and for members to discuss them. Philosphies that have led Jims golf school to be named twice as one of the top 25 golf schools in the USA.

 

Here,hoping that Jim chimes in, we can learn more about his concepts of "Total Immersion" and "Structured Deep Practice" training and his other beliefs.

 

"Total Immersion training is designed around the principle of Deep Insight or the student experiencing as many "light bulb" moments about a particular golf skill as possible. Structured Deep Practice is a very concrete method of training the body to acquire new movement patterns. It is non-technical and easy to understand and to perform."

 

There are those in life that give far more than they receive. Jim is one of those. He has much more to give in the pages that will follow in this thread.

[RBImGuy]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1370637369' post='7191602']
Who else in golf teaching has trained in the martial arts, NLP, Pilates, Yoga,alexander Technique, Rolfing and Cogntive therapy, as well as golf?
[/quote]

You could ask me as I have.
I even developed my own models in golf as well defined NLP along the way that not even the co-founders of NLP can teach you and done seminal work with dyslexics as well dug deep into human consiousness mind and body matter stuff and learning along the way, have a black belt and done work within several indonesian martial arts as kali and Silat, done client work with phobias,depressed, and other forms or client work taught modeling and and also taught NLP and other stuff for decades.
Just saying, wont mean I put that up as the first line when I am teaching golf.

Gods have no place left along humans.
we evolved

[grizztrax]

Flopper - maybe you should start your own thread instead of hijacking someone else's? I personally would not care to read it. Would love to hear more from JIM however...

[Jim Waldron]

Thanks, Kiwi. I have been very gratified by the numerous positive responses to my teaching approach in the Arm Swing Illusion thread over the past six weeks, and by PM, email and phone as well. Many have asked for more input from me, in areas of my teaching besides the Illusion concept. I am very busy during the summer teaching season, but will try to contribute as much as I can to keep this thread current and interesting. My goal is to help the reader improve his or her game in a fairly simple and Big Picture concept way using proven effective principles from my over twenty years of teaching. Many will be about golf swing mechanics, but I will try to include some stuff on short game, putting and mental game as well.

I do have a few simple guidelines. I will only discuss Big Picture concepts, and never delve into very technical subjects that are quite often debated in this forum. My main reason for this is that I know with absolutely certaintly that the written word is the least effective medium by far for accurately communicating swing mechanics. The possibility for mis-perception and confusion is very, very high. And most golfers don't need that kind of overly technical approach in any case - even in an in person lesson or golf school format.

Big Picture "in the ballpark" concepts are far more effective, especially for the readers in the 8 handicap or higher range of skill. If you feel that you actually need more precise information about a specific swing segment, then you simply need a lesson, that is tailored to your own unique swing pattern. Another guideline - I will not be doing individual lessons on this thread, so if you feel like you would like my input on your individual issue, please take a Remote lesson or come to one of our golf schools.


Third, I really do not want to encourage what I like to call "destructive tinkering" on the range, especially by mid to high handicap golfers. That approach has proven to be almost completely lacking in effectiveness, and often results in golfers actually getting worse. So I am NOT usually going to recommend that you follow precise mechanical instructions like "insert Tab A into Slot B" - with very few exceptions. Instead, I am going to ask you to simply sit in your favorite chair at home and THINK about the golf swing in a new way. Perception creates reality. And that kind of perceptual change is indeed possible to achieve via the written word. How much and how quickly that translates into a better golf swing motion is an open question. It is very unlikely to hurt you, it may be neutral and it is very likely that it will help you, at least to some degree. I certainly will not make any outrageous claims for instant success - that would simply be dishonest and unethical. But again - this kind of information is NOT a substitute for an actual lesson.

Creative tinkering is where you simply play around with the concept and try to fit it into your own three-dimensional golf swing anatomical puzzle. And that needs to be done in slow motion in front of a mirror to be effective. Destructive tinkering is where you hit a few balls on the range, at full speed, and if your ball flight is poor, say to yourself "Well - that doesn't work." If you use ball flight results during the early stages of making a swing change as a reason to stop practicing, then you are on an endless wheel of tinkering, with no real improvement. There are many reasons for this, which I will cover in future posts, but the main reason is that most golfers conflate THINKING about the new body part motion with the REALITY of that motion. Most likely, you are thinking about doing it and NOT actually doing it. So if you conclude that "it does not work" you are simply deceiving yourself.

Fourth, I am not here to debate the "Why" I am advocating for a certain concept or belief. I have no interest in debating it, and no time to waste debating it. I can simply say this - I have over 40 years in the game as a student, player and teacher. And I have dedicated my life to a decades long research project on how to better teach, practice, learn and play the game. I am fairly intelligent, with some early interest in the sciences. I understand empirical evidence and the laws of logic. Everything I teach has passed the science hurdle and the logic hurdle. Even more importantly, it has proven to work with thousands of students on the lesson tee. So if you anyone wants to debate any of my concepts, please start your own thread. It is very easy to do.

For the next two weeks or so, I would like to discuss some vitally important aspects of the mental game, what Ben Hogan called Preperation. How to learn and how to train effectively. There are Rules for how to do both.

So I welcome everyone to join in the discussion so that we can all learn from each other.

[J13]

Look forward to reading your thoughts.

[Jim Waldron]

In the Balance Point program that I have developed, there is a hierarchy of things that are important to know about, in four key areas - how to learn, train, create shots and compete on the golf course. Some things are more important than other things in that vast body of knowledge.

If I had to pick the most important thing of all, and common to all four areas, it would be the Supreme Fundamental - Awareness. Knowing where and how to focus one's mind is the most important thing to know how to do well, if you want to make rapid progress in learning, training, creating and performing.


Golfers who struggle with learning a better golf swing, typically have a wandering mind, and very poor feel sense awareness for their body motion, and in their hands, for their club motion.

Golfers who make changes easily tend to have very flexible or "open" minds, willing to accept new input, and they also tend to be able to picture the golf swing as a 3D jigsaw puzzle. That ability makes it much easier to start to see through the many illusions that shroud the golf swing in "mystery" and confusion.

Mindfulness meditation practice is essential to training one's mind to be more alert, awake and observant - and thus able to see what is truly happening, and thus able to begin the process of change. The good news is that you can learn to practice mindfulness over a golf shot - on the range and on the course.

Intention is the ability to focus one's mental energy in a specific direction, on a specific object, and with a precisely defined purpose or goal in mind. That creates clarity - which is essential for achieving one's objective. Great golf practicers know how to do this - they are very focused about what they are trying to do with their golf swing, and why it is correct. Since they have already concluded that the focal point of their intention is indeed correct, they are now attempting to create that new body pattern. The poor golf practicer goes to the range and makes many swings at a golf ball, "searching" for what is correct. That is NOT effective practice - it is merely destructive tinkering, in most cases.

[bdcava]

[quote name='grizztrax' timestamp='1370639459' post='7191754']
Flopper - maybe you should start your own thread instead of hijacking someone else's? I personally would not care to read it. Would love to hear more from JIM however...
[/quote]

A question was asked and he answered it how is that a highjack?

[BTP]

Jim,
What a pleasure! I thank you in advance for all your input and expertise. What a tremendous background you have; certainly an advantage in the approach to the golf game.

I guess I'll chime in in asking could you further explain your "total immersion" concept and how it relates to golf on the range as well as in competition?

[MadGolfer76]

Why is the first post an introduction? Seems staged and kind of cheesy. Next time, just get to it.

[Fade]

I am posting to subscribe to what I think will be a very interesting thread.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='BTP' timestamp='1370653186' post='7193050']
Jim,
What a pleasure! I thank you in advance for all your input and expertise. What a tremendous background you have; certainly an advantage in the approach to the golf game.

I guess I'll chime in in asking could you further explain your "total immersion" concept and how it relates to golf on the range as well as in competition?
[/quote]

Thanks for your positive feedback BTP - Total Immersion was developed as a form of rapid learning of foreign languages by the US State Dept back in the early 60's. The idea was to train the subconscious mind by engaging the student in an intense all day learning envirnonment in the classroom for 8 hours, and then informally at night as they went "home" to stay with their local family. No English is allowed to be spoken - kind of a sink or swim environment.

My version is kind of an all day "boot camp" golf school where the goal is for the student to be exposed to a relentless onslaught of information, demonstrations, Q and A sessions, visual aids, training aids, and especially drills that are designed to help the student achieve a super nova like light bulb moment of Deep Insight. Perception creates reality about the golf swing, so we are helping our students breakthrough to a much deeper level of understanding about the Laws of Body and Club Motion. The goal is rapid and radical swing changes, leading to much better ballstriking. And we use the same format in our putting and short game and mental game schools.

[Agro]

Hello Jim

If you don't mind, I would love to hear you expand on the practice of mindful meditation. Could you explain what exactly you believe mindful meditation is, some techniques in entering a state of meditation in a quite space and also how one can then enter these states in a real life golfing situation (or any other situation for that matter). I would also like to hear your views on brainwave entrainment technology as a means to help train the brain to enter the required frequencies for deep meditation.

Cheers

[magsgolfho]

Jim
Can you further explain or elaborate on how to become a good practicer. I feel you just describe me as the "destructive tinkerer". I have taken numerous lessons over the years and videos of my swing have not changed much. I feel I have gotten good instruction , drills, etc at the time and understand what I am doing wrong in the swing but I can't seem to make any lasting effecting changes. Your advice would help.
If you could also pass also some info about remote lessons that would be great

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='magsgolfho' timestamp='1370657270' post='7193460']
Jim
Can you further explain or elaborate on how to become a good practicer. I feel you just describe me as the "destructive tinkerer". I have taken numerous lessons over the years and videos of my swing have not changed much. I feel I have gotten good instruction , drills, etc at the time and understand what I am doing wrong in the swing but I can't seem to make any lasting effecting changes. Your advice would help.
If you could also pass also some info about remote lessons that would be great
[/quote]

At some point I would like to see an entire thread devoted to Effective Practice Strategies, it is that important. I can tell you this - almost none of my 12 handicap and higher students has the vaguest notion about how to practice effectively. A few short rules. One - when engaged in the early stages of swing change training, never react to negative ball flight results and stop your practice or change what you are working on. I say this for the following logical reasons: 1. pretty good chance your body is NOT actually doing what you are intending for it to do, especially if you violate another rule which is to ONLY do the change in slow motion in front of a mirror for feedback first. So if you hit ten bad shots in a row THINKING about doing the change but actually doing your OLD PATTERN, clearly you are not going to see better ball flight. I see it all the time in golf schools and lessons - the student is doing their old pattern and then puzzled as to why the ball flight has not improved. It is because your body has not yet accepted the new change - you need more time doing it at slower speeds or more time visualizing the new move to get your SM (subconscious mind) to accept it. 2. you need some form of objective feedback, like taping yourself, or a watchful eye/pro, or a training aid, so that you can compare what your Feel Channel is telling you with what your body is actually doing. 3. OTHER BODY PARTS, ie other swing flaws can cause the poor ball flight results. But you can only work on ONE THING AT AT A TIME. If you stop working on this one thing and move on to another thing, years will go by and you will never improve.

You want to lay down the early neuromuscular tracks of a swing change in slow motion, first eyes open to verify in the mirror the proper Outer Form, then eyes closed in Feel Channel. Most of the change will then slowly seep into your full swing motion without your mind needing to constantly monitor whether or not you are doing it correctly or not. Your Feel sense will tell you when you do it or don't do it - IF you train it first!

Another point - you are wasting your time doing any sort of repetitive motion practice to ingrain a new pattern IF you have not first had a deep insight about the "rightness" of what the change is all about. You need that insight as a foundation.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Agro' timestamp='1370657201' post='7193450']
Hello Jim

If you don't mind, I would love to hear you expand on the practice of mindful meditation. Could you explain what exactly you believe mindful meditation is, some techniques in entering a state of meditation in a quite space and also how one can then enter these states in a real life golfing situation (or any other situation for that matter). I would also like to hear your views on brainwave entrainment technology as a means to help train the brain to enter the required frequencies for deep meditation.

Cheers
[/quote]

My meditation background is mostly from the Zen tradition, with some additional training in Tibetan Buddhist techniques and Southeast Asian Vipassana mehtods. Not familiar at all with tech for brain training so cannot comment.

The early stages of training at Balance Point is using the notion of One Focal Point per swing, ie from just before takeaway is triggered all the way to the Finish. Concentration technically, not meditation in the classical definition. After that level of mental control is achieved, the student works on expanding that tiny circle of awareness to a larger sphere, what one of my teachers called "panaromic awareness", which is really a great method for integrating body part pattern change into your whole swing pattern.

Many examples of proven effective Focal Points. "Seeing the blur" post-impact is one that I often use with new students. Most cannot see it for the first dozen or so swings, even with a steady head and fixed gaze on their aiming point. Their mind has surrendered to the Impulses or is so busy thinking about swing thoughts that they literally "forget" to notice the blur.

[magsgolfho]

Jim
Can you elaborate a little more on how to ingrain the " rightness " of what the change is about. ??
From my own experience in how I practice I do try to visualize a change, do the motion in slow motion, look I mirror. I just can't seem to get that next step of getting to the carryover phase of the full swing.
Everything you say not to do, I do. So I am intrigued by a more mental vs physical change first. I feel my golf swing is like Einsteins definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='magsgolfho' timestamp='1370667589' post='7194142']
Jim
Can you elaborate a little more on how to ingrain the " rightness " of what the change is about. ??
From my own experience in how I practice I do try to visualize a change, do the motion in slow motion, look I mirror. I just can't seem to get that next step of getting to the carryover phase of the full swing.
Everything you say not to do, I do. So I am intrigued by a more mental vs physical change first. I feel my golf swing is like Einsteins definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
[/quote]

Here are some reasons why you may be struggling with a swing change. 1. You are missing the Deep Insight stage one experience. This means that your subconscious mind has NOT accepted the new information. The reasons for THAT are potentially many, but the most common two reasons are a. you are unable to deeply understand the new move your teacher has given you due to the many Sensory Illusions (32 at last count!) that shround the golf swing in mystery and confusion. and/or b. your mind has already formed a deeply held belief about some aspect of the following: impact alignments, club motion, swing shape or plane, power application and basic body mechanics. When that belief conflicts with your new move, your subconscious will stay with the old belief and reject the new move. By using your critical intelligence and with the guidance of a good teacher you can learn to reject the old belief and start to see through the Illusions that are holding you back.

Another is 2. something most teachers prefer not to talk about much, yet it is true nonetheless. Some folks (less than 1% of golfers)are just never going to get good at ballstriking - because they simnply lack the athletic talent. There - I said it. The golf swing is a complex motion that above all else requires the coordiantion of many moving body parts, a lot of it happening simultaneously. If you find rubbing your tummy while patting your head really tough to do, or have had trouble in the past learning to play a musical instrument, or learning martial arts, or ballet or modern dance, or gymnastics, or the crawl or butterfly swimming stroke - you might very well possess less than average athletic ability. Does not mean you cannot learn how to score - since putting and chipping mechanics are much simpler in nature than full swing, you can be a master of those two skills, and also a master of the mental game.

You can also use other skills like Tai Chi, Yoga and Pilates to strengthen your brain to body connection and thus improve your coordination.

3.If your Hit, Scoop or Steering Impulses are very strong - no amount of slow motion or repetitive motion training is going to help you. In that case, you start by NOT focusing on the ball, and learning how not to react to the presence of the ball. Once those Impulses are tamed, then you should see some results from your body motion training efforts.

4. Fitness - some golfers lack the core strength and/or flexibility to do the proper body moves.

5. Balance - any new body move you are trying to ingrain, can - at least in the early stages of learning - compromise your balance. The lack of balance causes the poor shot outcome. Usually, this is a very temporary thing, but sometimes, the new move removes an earlier compensation that was keeping you in better balance, like a crutch. Take the crutch away - even though long term it will be a very good thing - then in the short term, your balance suffers, until you spend some time working on it.

[Jim Waldron]

Preparation is the fundamental that has to do with organizing how you go about planning your improvement plan, and then organizing your thoughts and mental intentions so that you can execute that plan effectively. For learning, practice, creating shots on the range and for competing on the golf course. A clear mind, with a clearly laid out strategy and goals. This approach is the polar opposite than how most golfers approach game improvement - with a vaguely defined set of goals, and a vague strategy for how to get there. Focusing your Intention in a very precise way is extremeely powerful. And understanding the difference between Process and Outcome. Process is the "means whereby" the golfer can achieve his Outcome. And Process always occurs ONLY in the present moment. Which is why learning to achieve a focused mind - One Focal Point per swing - in the present is such a vitally important skill.

Many of my students who first come to see me struggle with their game improvement plan because they lack clarity about the above issues. They have wandering minds that tend to stay stuck in the past or the future. And the get emotionally attached to Outcomes - like bad golf shots, that results in them sabotaging their performance on the golf course and on the range.

[Schnee]

Jim, I don't know the exact name of what I'm asking about, I believe it's called the vision parralax or something like that. Does this apply to aiming the putter face as well as full shots? I have a hard time aiming the putter by looking at the hole sometimes.

[tyorke1]

Jim, thanks for bringing your knowledge to the group, as a player in the non-target group , rather than instruction maybe you would consider practice advice or maybe pre-tournament advice for high level amateurs players.either way it is very interesting reading.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='CSchneeweiss' timestamp='1370792022' post='7199666']
Jim, I don't know the exact name of what I'm asking about, I believe it's called the vision parralax or something like that. Does this apply to aiming the putter face as well as full shots? I have a hard time aiming the putter by looking at the hole sometimes.
[/quote]

Parallax Illusion is the two railroad tracks appearing to merge in the distance. You fix it by using a shaft on the ground pointed at your target from down the line view, and then during Setup, rotating your head slowly back and forth from clubface to target, along the imaginary target line that is an extension of the shaft on the ground, until your optics are re-programmed to see reality. The key is to NEVER aim your body - especially your left shoulder - at the Target. ONLY aim your clubface at the Target. Same issue in putting, but in putting it is easily fixed with the laser pointers that attach to the putterhead.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='tyorke1' timestamp='1370794084' post='7199780']
Jim, thanks for bringing your knowledge to the group, as a player in the non-target group , rather than instruction maybe you would consider practice advice or maybe pre-tournament advice for high level amateurs players.either way it is very interesting reading.
[/quote]

I am not sure exactly what you are referring to, perhaps you can be more specific about "non-target group"? I think a lot of the pre-tournament Preparation is mostly about really knowing your own game - both strengths and weaknesses -and playing to conservative targets, knowing your usual miss (hopefully a one-way miss), knowing your actual carry and roll yardages for every club in the bag, and playing the course in a practice round so that you can create a playing strategy.

And of course having a proven effective pre-shot routine that includes One Focal Point for the mind, and a conscious embrace of Confidence early in your routine.

My take on golf performance - especially under competitive pressure - is that golf is much more like performing stand-up comedy than it is like other sports. You have only one minute to tell one joke, and you are all by yourself up there - no team-mates to help you out, and you will either fail or succeed in getting the audience to laugh, and if you fail - it will be painfully obvious to everyone, including you. So you have to really know that joke inside out, and have practiced it often enough to have some level of mastery over it, and then you just have to walk on stage, go through your routine, take a huge leap of faith, since you could make a complete and utter fool of yourself and actually be booed off of the stage if you fail to perform the joke well. But you go up there anyhow and somehow find enough confidence to pull it off. Hitting a golf shot is very much like that or like jumping off of a 50 foot high cliff into a lake. It takes some courage to make that leap. But after you make several hundred leaps - and maybe a few getting bood off the stage incidents - you just start to slowly feel more comfortable making that leap. It is still a little scary and risky, but you trust your skills and your routine and just accept that utter failure is always a possibility, but you make that leap anyhow.

It's not a coincidence that for decades now some of our top comics and actors have been addicted to golf, and some, like Bob Hope and Bing Crosby, were very good players.

[Jim Waldron]

A member asked me why I am bringing up this whole Preparation topic, and I understand that it is almost never discussed in the golf media, but it is indeed a Very Big Deal if you really want to improve your game. So much so that I require every new student to read Bob Rotella's excellent book on the subject "The Golf of Your Dreams".

Understanding and embracing effective learning and practice strategies is very, very important. Most golfers who come to work with me are not using those effective strategies and it is the NUMBER ONE REASON WHY THEY HAVE FAILED TO ACHIEVE SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT. NOT mechanics. All the most perfect mechanical information in the world is not going to help you if you fail to understand how to internalize that information to the level of physical execution. And that starts with understanding that the very first step in learning and in training is the proper use of the mind. The mind learns first and then the mind trains the body. And not by the conscious mind yelling out a long list of mechanical instructions to the body. THAT NEVER WORKS.

I am talking about the mind experincing a dual flash of insight - dual meaning at both the conscious and subconscious level - about some aspect of the game, and then training with a focused mind to turn that insight into an actual new body movement pattern, in the case of making changes to your actual physical technique.

I had a member of this forum come to work with me several years ago who had read over a hundred books on golf swing theory, and had worked with ten top teachers, and who spent hours every week on the range hitting balls. After a few years of this, his average score was still around 110 or higher. The reason is that he was conflating conscious mind, purely intellectual understanding, with actual learning. And in sports, music, dance and martial arts , the learning occurs at a totally different realm of the mind and then very quickly to the body. He had a wandering mind and basically no body awareness. He also had no real clue how to go about actually making a swing change. To him, it was all about THINKING.

[Hoganstriker]

To me this is where golf instruction fails miserably in that it actually encourages the incorrect state of mind ie thinking. A least most I have seen. I agree with you Jim that athletic skill is developed throu a whole different portion of consciousness from conscious thought.
Very cool viewpoint you have.
These Internet sites are loaded with thinkers and debaters which is great but I think reading the debates is detrimental for a lot of higher handicap types because they get so worried about doing 'golf things' that they fail to unlock their potential greatness that can only come from focused attention.
Again it's tough to focus and swing when your mind is filled with ideas you read online about angles planes and the like.
K.i.s.s.
I began to get better when I noticed my improvements came more by not practicing because it allowed my mind to clear.
I also notice for myself hitting practice balls like say a large bucket is counterproductive anymore because of the thinking aspect. Once a golfer has a repeatable swing isn't it kind of like riding a bike? What has your experience been with that? I find not practicing and only playing to be really really helpful to me.
To me it's not something you figure out its more something you realize. Realizing it is far deeper than understanding it intellectually.
Sometimes less really is more in this game and one point I think I see different from most is I don't think the swing is complicated I think in terms of intent it's quite simple then again I have hit a lot of balls so maybe one must go through all the over complicated crud and messing themselves up before getting to the point where all those ideas melt away and they just swing. I have not had the experience with a lot of players say going from 15 to mid single digit so curious to hear what you think, Jim.
The East is a beast when you learn to get out of its way. Everything zen? All one can say is not two!

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1370801249' post='7200240']
To me this is where golf instruction fails miserably in that it actually encourages the incorrect state of mind ie thinking. A least most I have seen. I agree with you Jim that athletic skill is developed throu a whole different portion of consciousness from conscious thought.
Very cool viewpoint you have.
These Internet sites are loaded with thinkers and debaters which is great but I think reading the debates is detrimental for a lot of higher handicap types because they get so worried about doing 'golf things' that they fail to unlock their potential greatness that can only come from focused attention.
Again it's tough to focus and swing when your mind is filled with ideas you read online about angles planes and the like.
K.i.s.s.
I began to get better when I noticed my improvements came more by not practicing because it allowed my mind to clear.
I also notice for myself hitting practice balls like say a large bucket is counterproductive anymore because of the thinking aspect. Once a golfer has a repeatable swing isn't it kind of like riding a bike? What has your experience been with that? I find not practicing and only playing to be really really helpful to me.
To me it's not something you figure out its more something you realize. Realizing it is far deeper than understanding it intellectually.
Sometimes less really is more in this game and one point I think I see different from most is I don't think the swing is complicated I think in terms of intent it's quite simple then again I have hit a lot of balls so maybe one must go through all the over complicated crud and messing themselves up before getting to the point where all those ideas melt away and they just swing. I have not had the experience with a lot of players say going from 15 to mid single digit so curious to hear what you think, Jim.
The East is a beast when you learn to get out of its way. Everything zen? All one can say is not two!
[/quote]

Thanks for your feedback, H - I think one must go through the mechanical 3D golf swing jigsaw puzzle "figuring it all out" in the early and middle stages of one's golf career, so that you arrive at a place where you have RPM - Reasonably Proficient Mechanics, NOT "perfect" mechanics. But one of the big point I am attemtpting to make in this thread is that there are Rules for how to do that that are far more effective than the usual way it is done. The traditional way is basically a lot of hit or miss, trial and error, find a teacher, leave that teacher, find a new teacher, leave that teacher, tinker on the range, discover that Tip of the Week that literally only lasts one week,tinker some more, conflate swing thoughts with swing realities, hit a good shot and guess why, then hit two bad shots and guess why, etc. A kind of neurotic behavior that never really leads anywhere positive. Kind of how gamblers in Vegas behave. Their is a reason for a lot of this "golfers neurosis" and it is called Random Reinforcement Syndrome. The traditional golf culture is mostly based on RRS.

It really boils down to a few key issues: is golf a "make something happen" sport or "let something happen sport"? Is golf a "conscious mind directing the body" sport or a "subconscious mind directing the body" sport? Do "swing thoughts" actually work in the way most golfers believe that they do work, during those fairly infrequent times that they do seem to work - or is something else really going on?

A lot of these issues were raised and answered centuries ago in the Asian martial arts tradition. In that tradition, there is total and complete separation of learning/training from performing. Opposite mind sets that do not mix, like oil and water. No New Age nonsense about the overhead sword strike being "natural" - it is a learned skill, nothing natural about it. But the samurai never learned how to perform it on the battlefield and not at first at full speed either. The learning happened outside of combat - for obvious reasons - and in a dojo or school setting that stressed learning the basic mechanics in a piece by piece method, in slow motion in the early stages. Later - the student learned the rules for performance at high speed in simulated combat, and that this mind set was all about things like trust, commitment, confidence and letting go of control. Golf - in my view - is no different.

[Cwebb]

Jim, concerning the mental challenge,.... how much of the road block to success in this game do you find, is simply that it in most of today's western society, life is is lived in a constant state of "noise"? Making it all but impossible to ever devote enough sustained focus to acheive true positive radical change?

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Cwebb' timestamp='1370819700' post='7201642']
Jim, concerning the mental challenge,.... how much of the road block to success in this game do you find, is simply that it in most of today's western society, life is is lived in a constant state of "noise"? Making it all but impossible to ever devote enough sustained focus to acheive true positive radical change?
[/quote]

Yes, I agree totally with your point. We all need to find some quiet time alone during the day, just for own basic mental health. I have noticed something quite alarming in the past decade, which is that the usual level of "wandering mind" issue has gotten a lot worse for many of my students, especially the younger ones. The idea of "multi-tasking" has become widespread. It is really just rapid-paced "uni-tasking" since the conscious mind can only really focus on one thing at a time.

[Evil Ecstasy]

Jim what youve written is fascinating and I wish more golf instructors thought about the golf swing and how to play golf better as deep as you have.

I have a question, at what handicap level do you think talent and athletic ability really come into play, or do you believe that most people can overcome their ordinary talent with hard work and a program like yours? What % of people do you see that you think have the talent to make the pga tour if they worked hard enough and got the perfect coaching and training?

I say this as someone who wonders sometimes whether or not I fall into that 1% you claim has not enough athletic ability to really get anywhere in golf.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Evil Ecstasy' timestamp='1370843279' post='7203646']
Jim what youve written is fascinating and I wish more golf instructors thought about the golf swing and how to play golf better as deep as you have.

I have a question, at what handicap level do you think talent and athletic ability really come into play, or do you believe that most people can overcome their ordinary talent with hard work and a program like yours? What % of people do you see that you think have the talent to make the pga tour if they worked hard enough and got the perfect coaching and training?

I say this as someone who wonders sometimes whether or not I fall into that 1% you claim has not enough athletic ability to really get anywhere in golf.
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I rarely see a student who has the talent level to make it to the Tour - that level of talent is very rare. Although I am working right now with someone who clearly has that talent, and ability to hit the ball amazing distances, which is a huge advantage. The 1% I mentioned can still get better at golf, it is just going to be a longer struggle, and they are never going to get really good at ballstriking - they can still shoot lower scores by working on short game, putting and mental game.

Talent always plays a role, and hard work can always overcome the lack of talent, to some degree. One can learn to use a 3/4 backswing, very simple swing, that will lack power but still hit the ball accurately. So there are ways to get better.

My comment was about why some folks struggle so much making swing changes and talent is clearly an issue for some, ie if vey un-coordinated in sports in general, you are not suddenly going to find it in the golf swing, which requires MORE coordination - by far - than any othe sport.

[irish jim]

Hi Jim,
There is a chapter in " the golf of your dreams " entitled the psychology of practice . In it Bob Rotella advises spending some of your practice time hitting shots in trusting mode as well as hitting shots with the mind focused on technique. I know you also strongly advocate hitting all full speed shots without any conscious mind interference. Are there any practice techniques to help develop feel sense as against mental commands. I find it impossible to allow my subconscious to run the show.