Is driver alignment/score mark on head actually centered for impact?

[thepinkbomber]

Sorry for duplicate post. I just realized that two communities may understand this (instructional from a swing perspective) and the club making community from the shaft bend perspective.

 

Sounds obvious at first but please bare with me. Thought to experiment by adding a line on top of driver along the score mark that when head sitting perfectly flat is centered in the middle of the circle of the face then use line on ball like putting then line both up.

 

Curious if it helped at all if there was any face alignment issues since it was hard to see if I was exactly square at address. Just a test.

 

When I address the ball I first hold the club in my right hand and square it with the target but realized it is sitting flat at this point. Score line matches center circle line. Seems perfect.

 

BUT when I take address the toe is up and the score line actually is now not in center when you hold it on the correct angle and looking straight down. It's no longer in the circle in center of face.

 

Curious if the score line should be off from center due to toe up at address so when you address so that the score line is then centered over circle of face.

 

I know the shaft bends at impact so I think the theory is with the right flex the head will be flat relative to ground and not toe up or down. If this is true then I think the score line in the middle of the circle when flat and aiming is right. Ignore that the score line is not centered at address due to angle moving it since in theory it should bend and return to proper place.

 

Has anyone else seen this before and have any idea if score line when flat is correct or score since it returns back at impact or if it should be off center of circle in center due to angle at address (or impact?)?

[thepinkbomber]

any of the club fitters understand this?

[thepinkbomber]

I have found the score mark is not centered when at address over the centered circle on the face of most clubs. anyone know why or why its not talked about?

[ronsc1985]

I have never seen a golf club with a built in center mark that was not in the center of the clubface. If it's a decal there may be some variance in it's placement due to manufacturing tolerances but even then the differential is meaningless.

What you may be perceiving is the false impression to your eyes and brain caused by a thing called parallax error. Unless you are looking striaight down at the head the heel and toe appear at different lengths from the center since they are not the same distance from your eyes.

You may ask why don't club manufacturers account for this in the center mark placement. I would guess two reasons. First their customers are many different heights and there is no one placement to satisfy everyone. Second if they did this the center mark would look off center when someone picked up the clubhead to look at it and may assume a design and/or manufacturing defect.

Quite a few head manufacturers eliminate this potential problem by not using a center mark of any kind. This is particularily prevalent in the component market. Off the top of my head two I can think of are Wishon and Geek.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='ronsc1985' timestamp='1384202314' post='8132826']
I have never seen a golf club with a built in center mark that was not in the center of the clubface. If it's a decal there may be some variance in it's placement due to manufacturing tolerances but even then the differential is meaningless.

What you may be perceiving is the false impression to your eyes and brain caused by a thing called parallax error. Unless you are looking striaight down at the head the heel and toe appear at different lengths from the center since they are not the same distance from your eyes.

You may ask why don't club manufacturers account for this in the center mark placement. I would guess two reasons. First their customers are many different heights and there is no one placement to satisfy everyone. Second if they did this the center mark would look off center when someone picked up the clubhead to look at it and may assume a design and/or manufacturing defect.

Quite a few head manufacturers eliminate this potential problem by not using a center mark of any kind. This is particularily prevalent in the component market. Off the top of my head two I can think of are Wishon and Geek.
[/quote]

You're absolutely right in saying that the actual placement of a top alignment mark on the crown of a wood can get all wobberjawed due to optical illusions of the eyes looking down at the top of the head from an angle away from it. I don;t do top crown alignment marks on woodheads anymore because of two reasons - one, the vast majority of clubmakers told us they don't want anything there. Two with us doing different driver models with different face angles, and now doing a driver, fwy wood and hybrid with bendable hosels so the face angle can be adjusted anywhere from 4 open to 4 closed, a top crown alignment aid could never be put on the top of our woods and end up always looking square as the golfer wants to see it.

In truth, for the standard club companies, if the mark is a pad print (similar to decal) most of the head makers will set the alignment mark 2* off from square and a little more toward the toe side of face center to allow for this optical illusion. Then policing that through repeated production becomes a royal pain in the back. Then you have the companies who engrave it into the crown - if that is cast in, usually no problem for perfect repeatability but if there are multiple models with different face angles, that requires a different position based on what the designer thinks satisfies the most golfers' eyes. This is also why you tend to see a few more round shape top marks that don't have any lines in them to cause these optical issues of alignment vs mis alignment.

TOM

[Upgrayedd]

The alignment mark on the crown of Ping fairway woods is definitely NOT centered. In fact it is toward the heel so the optical illusion bit doesn't hold. I have found that when it is like that the shot seems more solid when striking at the crown mark rather than at the heel to toe center.

edit - Tom, love the bendable hosel idea. Some of your designs intrigue me and that is a great added feature.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='Upgrayedd' timestamp='1384209749' post='8133476']

edit - Tom, love the bendable hosel idea. Some of your designs intrigue me and that is a great added feature.
[/quote]

Thanks, that has been a fun project to work through over the past couple of years. While most of the clubmakers only have an iron bending machine, they have been asking us to do the bends based on what they see is needed from their fitting analysis. So it has been fun to be able to fill such a wide range of fitting specs on the drivers, woods, and hybrids they fit for the golfers.

Had a set request for heads last week for a driver + fwy woods + hybrids last week from a clubmaker who fit a male golfer who was 5'3 with a big outside in path and a very short wrist to floor even for his height, so we were able to bend 4 flat and 3 closed on everything for him. As I saw that I felt really good to know here was a golfer who really does have special needs and who would never have been able to get that kind of fitting help anywhere else. Most of what we bend on the drivers, woods and hybrids for clubmakers runs in the 2 up to 2 flat for lie, and 3 hook to 2 open for FA which is nice because it allows clubmakers to broaden their perspective on what they can do for different golfers.

TOM

[Bobalu]

How much do driver lie modifications change ball flight? Is it just more of a visual comfort thing?

[rybo]

The optical distortion caused by standing to the side of the center of the club is called parallax error.

It appears some mfg's put the alignment mark in the center of the head while others move it ever so slightly in an attempt to compensate for the known error.

[Architect]

[quote name='rybo' timestamp='1384260583' post='8136330']
The optical distortion caused by standing to the side of the center of the club is called parallax error.

It appears some mfg's put the alignment mark in the center of the head while others move it ever so slightly in an attempt to compensate for the known error.
[/quote]

I came here to say this....therefore you must be correct

[thepinkbomber]

you don't need to be at address to see it. nor is it an illusion its real.

take your driver with center score mark over circle sitting squarely on the floor. now tilt it in position where you would be a setup. he score mark moves from center to left side of circle closer to the heel.

simple question..

at setup do you putt the ball even with the center circle (put your own score line on) or use the score line over the center circle? why would you do either one?