Golf Specific Camera

[Kiwi2]

Yes i know there is a Casio Camera thread but this camera is golf specific and, because of that, I think it warrants a thread of its own.

 

I recently bought a Casio EX-FC200S. Hopefully the following may help a forum member considering a camera purchase.

 

It offers video capture from 30fps to 1000 fps.

The 1000 fps however, is only 224 x 64 in image size.

 

Playback is easy to view in the 3"monitor display outdoors.

 

There is a best shot feature which enables you to set up the camera to best video swings (down the line or face on). In this mode capture can be set at 120fps or 240 fps. 120 fps has an image size of 640x 480 pixels and 240 is at 512 x 384.

 

You can step through the swing frame by frame, capture a still image of a swing frame, see slow motion capture at either slow motion or normal speed, zoom in or out of the captures and edit swings on the camera.

 

I haven't experienced any problem shooting in any of the modes in any weather or outdoor light conditions.

 

The camera uses a rechargeable lithium ion battery.

 

You may not need swing analysis software if you have it. It has a down the line display with spine angle, shaft plane and shoulder plane lines drawn in. These can be moved around to suit the capture. It also has a face on analysis display which draws two vertical and two horizontal lines. This model does not provide side by side swing comparison. There is a more expensive model that does. As the videos can be downloaded into my computer and I have Cswing I couldn't justify the extra cost of that model.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1372281244' post='7330056']
Yes i know there is a Casio Camera thread but this camera is golf specific and, because of that, I think it warrants a thread of its own.

I recently bought a Casio EX-FC200S. Hopefully the following may help a forum member considering a camera purchase.

It offers video capture from 30fps to 1000 fps.
The 1000 fps however, is only 224 x 64 in image size.

Playback is easy to view in the 3"monitor display outdoors.

There is a best shot feature which enables you to set up the camera to best video swings (down the line or face on). In this mode capture can be set at 120fps or 240 fps. 120 fps has an image size of 640x 480 pixels and 240 is at 512 x 384.

You can step through the swing frame by frame, capture a still image of a swing frame, see slow motion capture at either slow motion or normal speed, zoom in or out of the captures and edit swings on the camera.

I haven't experienced any problem shooting in any of the modes in any weather or outdoor light conditions.

The camera uses a rechargeable lithium ion battery.

You may not need swing analysis software if you have it. It has a down the line display with spine angle, shaft plane and shoulder plane lines drawn in. These can be moved around to suit the capture. It also has a face on analysis display which draws two vertical and two horizontal lines. This model does not provide side by side swing comparison. There is a more expensive model that does. As the videos can be downloaded into my computer and I have Cswing I couldn't justify the extra cost of that model.
[/quote]
The criticism of the Casio cameras during the last few years is that they lack manual shutter speed control.This video was taken with a Casio Ex fc200s and the blurry shaft and clubhead at impact reflect that problem . It is certainly possible that the camera you purchased has an upgrade to avoid this problem,so post a front video of a driver to check if your current model avoids this blur
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42bUeZPun8[/media]

[Kiwi2]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1372282857' post='7330234']
The criticism of the Casio cameras during the last few years is that they lack manual shutter speed control.This video was taken with a Casio Ex fc200s and the blurry shaft and clubhead at impact reflect that problem . It is certainly possible that the camera you purchased has an upgrade to avoid this problem,so post a front video of a driver to check if your current model avoids this blur
[/quote]

The blurry shaft and clubhead reflect the mode chosen by the person who shot that video.

I can only speak for the EX-FC200S. You can set the shutter speed control from 30 fps to 1000 fps via the quality mode.

Shutter speed selections are

30 fps
120 fps
240 fps
480 fps

and

1000fps

There is no blur in the videos I have shot.

Here is a driver video, that someone uploaded to You Tube, shot with the camera at 240fps. Quality would have been lost in the upload. But the clubhead and shaft can clearly be seen here.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaQvSqTJ3zc[/media]

Video I have shot at 1000 fps clearly shows what happens with the ball and clubhead at collision,just like Swingvision, but it as at 224 x 64 pixels so it isn't the best when zoomed.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1372286915' post='7330606']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1372282857' post='7330234']
The criticism of the Casio cameras during the last few years is that they lack manual shutter speed control.This video was taken with a Casio Ex fc200s and the blurry shaft and clubhead at impact reflect that problem . It is certainly possible that the camera you purchased has an upgrade to avoid this problem,so post a front video of a driver to check if your current model avoids this blur
[/quote]

The blurry shaft and clubhead reflect the mode chosen by the person who shot that video.

I can only speak for the EX-FC200S. You can set the shutter speed control from 30 fps to 1000 fps via the quality mode.

Shutter speed selections are

30 fps
120 fps
240 fps
480 fps

and

1000fps

There is no blur in the videos I have shot.

Here is a driver video, that someone uploaded to You Tube, shot with the camera at 240fps. Quality would have been lost in the upload. But the clubhead and shaft can clearly be seen here.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaQvSqTJ3zc[/media]

Video I have shot at 1000 fps clearly shows what happens with the ball and clubhead at collision,just like Swingvision, but it as at 224 x 64 pixels so it isn't the best when zoomed.
[/quote]
The number of frames /second is another issue ,but blurring is not a question of frames per second ,but one of shutter speed.The fastest shutter speed on this camera is 1/2000 second.. which is the minimum to avoid blurring.The problem is that if you can not manually set the shutter speed the camera will automatically set the shutter speed based mainly on the amount of light available.Shooting videos without manual shutter speed control will be adequate in conditions where there is considerable sunlight ,such as in the video that you provided,but will not be in conditions with less light,such as the one that i provided .So the question that i am asking you,does your camera permit manual shutter speed control?

[Timanator]

Do you have such a high swing speed and so little flaws to warrant that much details in a digital camera? A lot of us can do with something very simple if you know what you are look for.

[Kiwi2]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1372282857' post='7330234']
The number of frames /second is another issue ,but blurring is not a question of frames per second ,but one of shutter speed.The fastest shutter speed on this camera is 1/2000 second.. which is the minimum to avoid blurring.The problem is that if you can not manually set the shutter speed the camera will automatically set the shutter speed based mainly on the amount of light available.Shooting videos without manual shutter speed control will be adequate in conditions where there is considerable sunlight ,such as in the video that you provided,but will not be in conditions with less light,such as the one that i provided .So the question that i am asking you,does your camera permit manual shutter speed control?
[/quote]

Thank you for your information russc.

Like many I thought frame speed and shutter speed were the same thing. I have learned that they are not. My reading disclosed to me that frame rates determine how many images are taken per second. Shutter speed determines the length of exposure for each individual frame. Motion blur appears to be a result of the time of exposure because more motion is captured in each individual frame of the video. So providing the ability to adjust fps appears to enable a user to minimise the possiblity of blur. l

You asked for a video showing no blur with a driver swing. I provided it and explained, why in my laymans opinion and my experimentation, the video you posted was blurred.

What is important is that the camera meets a users needs. It meets mine.

I have shot in dull conditions, a driver swing with no blur of either the clubhead or the shaft when it was played back on the camera. The person who was filmed has a swing speed in excess of 110 mph. The video was shot using the best shot feature with fps at 240 fps. I also shot a 1000 fps swing shortly after, in the same conditions, which again showed no blur.

With the setting at 240 fps, I have yet to see shaft or clubhead blur. I experimented and did see it at 30 fps. I now understand why.

It seems that the shutter speed needs to be roughly double the number of frames per second that is being recorded. So , if you are recording at 240 frames per second, you want your shutter speed to be 1/480th of a second. If the maximum shutter speed available is 1/2000th of a second then, from what I have read, and my experience in different lighting conditions, that is adequate. The videos I have shot with the 1000 fps mode proves that to me.

That has been borne out by my use of the camera. The camera is a tool for me. It is producing good quality motion capture and so as far as I am concerned that is all that matters.

Do you really thnk that a multi national company such as Casio would not have considered the so called problem you seem to see, particularly when the main function of the model in question is to shoot golf swing videos?

Suffice to say, I am happy with my purchase.

[Pinsplitter59]

it may look sharp but:
110 miles per hour
6969600 inches per hour
1936 inches per second

1.93 inches travelled in 1/1000 of a second (1936 / 1000 ).
0.968 inches travelled in 1/2000 of a second
0.484 inches travelled in 1/4000 of a second

even at 1/4000 second at 110mph club head travel is almost half an inch during the exposure.

[russc1597187869]

Golfers have commented that 240 frames /second is the maximum that they use and that 120 frames is very adequate .Standard video is 30 frames although some of phones can go to 60 . I do not know where you saw the 2/1 ratio,shutter speed but 1/480 second will not be sufficient. to prevent blurring as Pinssplitter59 pointed out.I believe that some of the earlier Casios were capable of 1/40,000 shutter speed
Many golfers have been disappointed that the Casio cameras starting with the ZR series and extending to this series fail to have manual shutter speed control.

[larrybud]

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1372323224' post='7332850']
it may look sharp but:
110 miles per hour
6969600 inches per hour
1936 inches per second

1.93 inches travelled in 1/1000 of a second (1936 / 1000 ).
0.968 inches travelled in 1/2000 of a second
0.484 inches travelled in 1/4000 of a second

even at 1/4000 second at 110mph club head travel is almost half an inch during the exposure.
[/quote]

Exactly. Even in the OPs demo video, the clubhead is blurred, even though it's shot in bright daylight. Now, it might not be so much that it really matters to him, but it still is blurry. On a down the line view you're not going to notice it at all

[attachment=1753646:blurryclub.jpg]

The camera is going to pick the best shutter speed based on the amount of light. Go into an indoor dome or even under lights, and it'll probably go down to 1/150th of a second if he's shooting 120fps (shutter speed MUST be faster than FPS).

From what I've read, shutter speed is a function of both hardware AND software. Casio has decided it's not worth the extra hardware to allow faster than 1/2000th of a second shutter speed.

I've recorded on occasion with my FH20 at 1/20,000 and 1/40,000 of a second (yes 20 and 40 thousand). It's pretty cool being able to see the rotation of the ball! I guess if I went full Mythbuster route and layed down a measuring tool, I could calculate RPM.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1372316601' post='7332742']
Do you really thnk that a multi national company such as Casio would not have considered the so called problem you seem to see, particularly when the main function of the model in question is to shoot golf swing videos?

Suffice to say, I am happy with my purchase.
[/quote]

Of course they considered it...they lowered the quality of their camera by removing the feature, but may have HAD to do so to continue to hit price points that will sell at a high enough volume.

Thanks for your review, as I would like something better than my iphone for videos. Regretfully I never got one of better Casio's when they were more affordable, and this appears to be a good compromise.