Anyone know about the rumoured TMAG non-conforming range?

[DeanP]

[quote name='Cwing' timestamp='1379730967' post='7887043']
At the end of the day, I'd guess that 95% or more play golf as a social event and to have beers with their buddies and could care less about usga rules.
[/quote]

That describes me and my golfing buddies to a t. We are out there to hang out and have some fun. If we happen to hit a few more good shots because a manufacturer saw fit to make equipment specifically for us, then I'm all for it. I've never played in a tournament and most likely never will, so having the USGA dictate what equipment I can or can't use seems somewhat dictatorial. Since I don't play to a handicap, and the USGA doesn't even know I exist, does that mean I'm not a true golfer? Not by a long shot...

[Sky High Handicap]

"This strikes me more as a declaration (or recognition) of the USGAs utter irrelevance in the lives of the recreational player."

I could care less if someone plays with 15 clubs, or uses a 500cc driver. Nobody checks my clubs, and I don't check anyone else's. I don't have time to practice much. I will hit 2 shots off the 1st tee, "if" my 1st drive is in the woods. If my 2nd shot off the 1st tee is in the woods, then I just deal with it. If my ball is well behind a tree, and I have no line of play to advance the ball, I'll take a club-length of relief from the obstacle. I allow the same to anyone I play with. I sometimes play with people who take 1 mulligan per round, or 1 mulligan per 9 holes. The USGA only influences me, in that most manufacturers operate within the rules as set out by the USGA.

I want the straightest, longest hitting clubs and balls I can afford. I do not care what the USGA thinks of them. I am not a member.

[wobgon]

[quote name='Sky High Handicap' timestamp='1379889614' post='7894263']
"This strikes me more as a declaration (or recognition) of the USGAs utter irrelevance in the lives of the recreational player."

I could care less if someone plays with 15 clubs, or uses a 500cc driver. Nobody checks my clubs, and I don't check anyone else's. I don't have time to practice much. I will hit 2 shots off the 1st tee, "if" my 1st drive is in the woods. If my 2nd shot off the 1st tee is in the woods, then I just deal with it. If my ball is well behind a tree, and I have no line of play to advance the ball, I'll take a club-length of relief from the obstacle. I allow the same to anyone I play with. I sometimes play with people who take 1 mulligan per round, or 1 mulligan per 9 holes. The USGA only influences me, in that most manufacturers operate within the rules as set out by the USGA.

I want the straightest, longest hitting clubs and balls I can afford. I do not care what the USGA thinks of them. I am not a member.
[/quote]
What tees do you play?

[GaHack1]

So having an unfair advantage over the people you are playing against / with isn't a problem ? I wouldn't play with people who knowingly cheat by using non conforming clubs. Just my opinion, they are cheating regardless of what anyone thinks. We have one set of rules for the game we play. If you are trying to gain unfair advantage by using non conforming clubs you are a cheater, plain and simple. Does everyone in you group have this advantage or do some of them have conforming clubs.. where do you draw the line? Just take some Vaseline and rub it on your drive face.. slice eliminated.

Course playing too long for you? Move up a tee and check your ego at the door.

[bjrapper]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379796405' post='7890045']
[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379795922' post='7890013']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379791985' post='7889729']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1379790789' post='7889657']
Anything that gives a shot in the arm to the numbers of rounds played and total number of golfers is more than likely going to be fine with me.

The golf ball traveling farther is not a problem for people outside the TINY pocket of golfers that is made up of professionals and talented amateurs. Joe Shmoe golfer playing on Sunday morning at Hackitaround Golf Course is not driving greens, laughing at Donald Ross and kissing his Titleist ProV in the process.
[/quote]
So how much is too much. Suppose titleist came out with a ball that would travel 400 yard with an 85 mile an hour swing speed...
[/quote]

Yeah. Suppose TM came out with a ball with self-guiding mechanism which guarantees hole in one.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

We are talking about at most 4% more distance with the driver and/or more backspin with wedges.

Let's stay with realistic scenarios, could we?
[/quote]
Sorry you didn't understand what my point was....If you think my point was that they were going to make such a ball, then I really don"t know what to say to you....By the way, nice use of capital letters...Very impressive....
[/quote]

Nice use of ellipses. Very impressive. Although your use of a quotation mark instead of an apostrophe is not very impressive.

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='bjrapper' timestamp='1379897127' post='7894875']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379796405' post='7890045']
[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379795922' post='7890013']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379791985' post='7889729']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1379790789' post='7889657']
Anything that gives a shot in the arm to the numbers of rounds played and total number of golfers is more than likely going to be fine with me.

The golf ball traveling farther is not a problem for people outside the TINY pocket of golfers that is made up of professionals and talented amateurs. Joe Shmoe golfer playing on Sunday morning at Hackitaround Golf Course is not driving greens, laughing at Donald Ross and kissing his Titleist ProV in the process.
[/quote]
So how much is too much. Suppose titleist came out with a ball that would travel 400 yard with an 85 mile an hour swing speed...
[/quote]

Yeah. Suppose TM came out with a ball with self-guiding mechanism which guarantees hole in one.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

We are talking about at most 4% more distance with the driver and/or more backspin with wedges.

Let's stay with realistic scenarios, could we?
[/quote]
Sorry you didn't understand what my point was....If you think my point was that they were going to make such a ball, then I really don"t know what to say to you....By the way, nice use of capital letters...Very impressive....
[/quote]

Nice use of ellipses. Very impressive. Although your use of a quotation mark instead of an apostrophe is not very impressive.
[/quote]

You are transcendent sir.

[wobgon]

[quote name='bjrapper' timestamp='1379897127' post='7894875']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379796405' post='7890045']
[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379795922' post='7890013']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379791985' post='7889729']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1379790789' post='7889657']
Anything that gives a shot in the arm to the numbers of rounds played and total number of golfers is more than likely going to be fine with me.

The golf ball traveling farther is not a problem for people outside the TINY pocket of golfers that is made up of professionals and talented amateurs. Joe Shmoe golfer playing on Sunday morning at Hackitaround Golf Course is not driving greens, laughing at Donald Ross and kissing his Titleist ProV in the process.
[/quote]
So how much is too much. Suppose titleist came out with a ball that would travel 400 yard with an 85 mile an hour swing speed...
[/quote]

Yeah. Suppose TM came out with a ball with self-guiding mechanism which guarantees hole in one.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

We are talking about at most 4% more distance with the driver and/or more backspin with wedges.

Let's stay with realistic scenarios, could we?
[/quote]
Sorry you didn't understand what my point was....If you think my point was that they were going to make such a ball, then I really don"t know what to say to you....By the way, nice use of capital letters...Very impressive....
[/quote]

Nice use of ellipses. Very impressive. Although your use of a quotation mark instead of an apostrophe is not very impressive.
[/quote]
No it isn't,...That's called a mistake. It's still a shame you don't understand what the point of my post was...

[Sky High Handicap]

"What tees do you play?"

Standard Men's Tees. Never the Championship Tees. That would be a joke.

I loved the movie Tombstone. The Doc Holiday role was the best role of his acting career. So many good actors and memorable / quotable scenes in that movie.

[wobgon]

[quote name='Sky High Handicap' timestamp='1379902648' post='7895321']
"What tees do you play?"

Standard Men's Tees. Never the Championship Tees. That would be a joke.

I loved the movie Tombstone. The Doc Holiday role was the best role of his acting career. So many good actors and memorable / quotable scenes in that movie.
[/quote]
I play the back tees or whatever tees the guys i am playing with are playing....The reason i ask you what tees you play was because i would think a recreational player would rather move up than play a non conforming club...If you read this whole thread you will see I did a lot of posting and am against non conforming clubs but not because i care what others do or want to try to dictate to others, I just feel that as i said before,i love this game and feel that those who try to improve by going too far outside the rules are selling themselves short........."Why Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave"

[Balloon]

[quote name='MizunoLaxer40' timestamp='1379718892' post='7886071']
what exact specifications are we talking about here that make this new line of clubs "nonconforming"? if it's something as little as different groves, I don't think it'll really make the game that different for it to be even worth arguing over.
[/quote]

There are several quite easy things to make equipment that allows much longer shots:

- Drivers with trampoline effect (Remember the good old Big Bertha?).
- Balls of illegal size and weight.

Forget about the grooves. This would only attract the better players. But the two items mentioned could make any weekend duffer to drive it 350 yards. The only remaining problem will be direction. :-)

[jmvargas]

this is opening a can of worms!!

[irwinfletcher77]

I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.

[Arafel]

[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Keeping it classy I see.

[nbg352]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379858318' post='7892525']
[quote name='Xt1ncT' timestamp='1379832060' post='7892021']
[quote name='GaHack1' timestamp='1379820158' post='7891603']
Collect 250.00 when you pass go. Get a little strange on the side. Who cares it's just cheating. What about integrity? What about personal accountability? I don't really see any difference between this and the old foot wedge. Just my opinion.
[/quote]thing is, it's not cheating.

The target market if these clubs don't play under the rules of golf. Nor do they care about them.

They want to go out once in a while and hit the ball with the big dog, take the piss out of their buddies and have a beer afterwards.

They play by their own rules- preferred lies through the green all year round, gimmes, no stroke and distance.

Because that's how they enjoy it.

I this said earlier - who are we to tell them how to enjoy themselves? They won't be at your club or mine, they won't be playing in the monthly medal etc.

But, they'll potentially be having more fun.

Lastly, there is the chance of trickle down technology as well. All sounds good to me.
[/quote]
Great info......When did TM do the press release stating all this info about target market etc. I can't seem to find it anywhere online........
[/quote]
While I agree with you, his argument is reasonable.....

[irwinfletcher77]

[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1379945149' post='7896713']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Keeping it classy I see.
[/quote]


Says the guy with a criminal as his avatar

[jmplautz]

[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Yup. Think more box sets geared to beginning and slow club head speed golfers.

I think this is also an opportunity to take some of that RD that these companies are doing and trying to make a buck off of it. Limited runs listed under some sort of specialty line, something like Taylor Made Extreme. Ridiculous specs, 55 inch shafts, 500+ cc heads, made of materials that the governing groups just won't approve. I betting there's as much of a market for this in the general public as there is for "Tour" equipment.

[QEight]

[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Polara golf balls successful?

[The Pearl]

So what is the goal? To make the game easier and shoot better scores? Why doesn't each course just put a set of tees up near the ladies tees and designate them "The Non-Conforming" tees and than cut garbage can size holes in each green and designate them "The Non-Conforming" holes and put different flags on them.

Better yet, why don't people just show up at the course, grab a scorecard, write 75 on it and just go have a beer? Save the greens fee money and lost balls.

[wobgon]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1379951002' post='7897269']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Polara golf balls successful?
[/quote]
Yea, they have been just flying off the shelves....

[wobgon]

[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379946397' post='7896827']
[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1379945149' post='7896713']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Keeping it classy I see.
[/quote]


Says the guy with a criminal as his avatar
[/quote]
This from the guy who calls others douchebags and says other posts are laughable...Woops, I better be careful,the guy in my avatar carries a gun and smokes a cigarette.....

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]



Classy

[nbg352]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379953074' post='7897435']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379946397' post='7896827']
[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1379945149' post='7896713']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Keeping it classy I see.
[/quote]


Says the guy with a criminal as his avatar
[/quote]
This from the guy who calls others douchebags and says other posts are laughable...Woops, I better be careful,the guy in my avatar carries a gun and smokes a cigarette.....
[/quote]
Yeah, well.....the guy in my avatar has......claws! Really big claws......

[The Pearl]

Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.

[finalist]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.

[Rebel420]

[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]
I was also thinking the non-conforming gear would be obvious - think like the bright orang tips they put on kids you guns so you KNOW without a doubt they are toys. Or the special faceplate to make the Nikon?or is it Leupold? Slope rangefinder legal

[The Pearl]

[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]

You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.

[wobgon]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1379953423' post='7897467']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379953074' post='7897435']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379946397' post='7896827']
[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1379945149' post='7896713']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Keeping it classy I see.
[/quote]


Says the guy with a criminal as his avatar
[/quote]
This from the guy who calls others douchebags and says other posts are laughable...Woops, I better be careful,the guy in my avatar carries a gun and smokes a cigarette.....
[/quote]
Yeah, well.....the guy in my avatar has......claws! Really big claws......
[/quote]
I've always thought he looked pretty ferocious, just like the one that was just walking across my keyboard.....

[finalist]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379956766' post='7897743']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]

You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.
[/quote]

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge. The pro at my course had it out one day and it was loads of fun to mess around with. I could literally make range balls stop on a dime. At the same time the face plate was very obviously different - large black plastic thing with spike like grooves. As long as guys don't get away with using NC stuff in tournaments I say go for it. You never know what R&D may come of it for future conforming gear. Have fun then get addicted to rules.

[nbg352]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379960557' post='7898041']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1379953423' post='7897467']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379953074' post='7897435']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379946397' post='7896827']
[quote name='Arafel' timestamp='1379945149' post='7896713']
[quote name='irwinfletcher77' timestamp='1379943075' post='7896599']
I am amazed at the responses on this thread. I would be willing to bet half of you rallying against this are the same douchebags who insist on playing the back tees because the pros do it. Nobody is talking about 400 and 500 yard drives here. There is no way possible a 87 mph club head speed is going to produce a 400 yard drive. We are talking 20, 30, at the most 50 yards for some. This kind of product would target a vast majority of people ranging from women to seniors to just your average joe. I've said for years from a retail stand point which ever company came out with a product like this would make a killing. Just amazes me the laughable responses on this fourm sometimes.
[/quote]

Keeping it classy I see.
[/quote]


Says the guy with a criminal as his avatar
[/quote]
This from the guy who calls others douchebags and says other posts are laughable...Woops, I better be careful,the guy in my avatar carries a gun and smokes a cigarette.....
[/quote]
Yeah, well.....the guy in my avatar has......claws! Really big claws......
[/quote]
I've always thought he looked pretty ferocious, just like the one that was just walking across my keyboard.....
[/quote]
Cats are born "Windows" trained. They can do things with a keyboard that I've never even dreamed of. And they never tell you how to fix it, either.

[tradpl]

[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379965701' post='7898673']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379956766' post='7897743']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]

You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.
[/quote]

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge.
[/quote]

Very unlikely. "Normal" wedge has, what, 10 000 rpm max? It means about 160 rounds per second. 400 TIMES more spin would mean 64 000 rounds per second.

Golf ball has diameter more or less 43mm. So its perimeter is 122mm. Multiply by 64 000. 7 808 000 mm = 7,8 km. So the speed of perimeter points would be 7,8 km/s, while speed of sound is about 0,3 km/s.

I find it unbelievable.