Anyone know about the rumoured TMAG non-conforming range?

[nbg352]

[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379971075' post='7899219']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379965701' post='7898673']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379956766' post='7897743']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]

You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.
[/quote]

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge.
[/quote]

Very unlikely. "Normal" wedge has, what, 10 000 rpm max? It means about 160 rounds per second. 400 TIMES more spin would mean 64 000 rounds per second.

Golf ball has diameter more or less 43mm. So its perimeter is 122mm. Multiply by 64 000. 7 808 000 mm = 7,8 km. So the speed of perimeter points would be 7,8 km/s, while speed of sound is about 0,3 km/s.

I find it unbelievable.
[/quote]
Well, when you put it like that, I do too......7.8km/s does sound pretty fast....26x faster than the speed of sound. Holy smoke! Isn't that nearly as fast as a space shuttle?

[tradpl]

I think the ball would explode The inside stress would have been quite strong.

[finalist]

[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379971075' post='7899219']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379965701' post='7898673']

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge.
[/quote]

Very unlikely. "Normal" wedge has, what, 10 000 rpm max? It means about 160 rounds per second. 400 TIMES more spin would mean 64 000 rounds per second.

Golf ball has diameter more or less 43mm. So its perimeter is 122mm. Multiply by 64 000. 7 808 000 mm = 7,8 km. So the speed of perimeter points would be 7,8 km/s, while speed of sound is about 0,3 km/s.

I find it unbelievable.
[/quote]

no, no, no... your math is all wrong Einstein.
You forgot to exptrapolate for the amorphous structure and multiply by the edothermic value once the modulus of elasticity is found... duh!



[b][i]That's marketing for ya[/i][/b]. What ever reality is the thing spins like nothing I've ever seen.

BUT if the ball exploded from a wedge hit that would be AWESOME!

[tradpl]

Yup. And I forgot about relativistic adjustment

[jldavis73]

I'm all for folks playing with whatever equipment maximizes their enjoyment and gets them out on the course. Conforming or not, you're welcome to join us for 18.

[Myherobobhope]

[quote name='jldavis73' timestamp='1379975027' post='7899553']
I'm all for folks playing with whatever equipment maximizes their enjoyment and gets them out on the course. Conforming or not, you're welcome to join us for 18.
[/quote]

You know who I like to play golf with? People who are fun to play with. You know what I notice but don't care about? Their equipment.

There are some circumstances I care about what they are playing (ie money games) but they aren't frequent.

[ksuchris2000]

I constantly read these self complimenting, aggrandizing claims of wrxers being the top % of golfers. I'm calling bs. I'm betting 9 of 10 members of this site couldn't break 80 on a decent course playing by the rules of golf.

[WalleyeDave]

[quote name='BuckyBadger' timestamp='1379710613' post='7885411']
Ugh. Why? I am kind of a stickler on equipment. Why make clubs that are non conforming? What is the point of creating a rift between the USGA and recreational golfers?

What is the definition of a recreational golfer anyway? I think if you have a USGA handicap then you must play conforming clubs.

What if you play in a golf league? Shouldn't you play conforming clubs? What about playing a friendly game for money? I'm not playing a guy that uses non conforming sticks.

This just opens a huge can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. Soon you'll have people wanting to play illegal super distance golf balls etc.

I think this is a very bad idea. It is cheating in my book.
[/quote]I'll worry about conforming clubs in 2024. Not cheating until then.

[jmvargas]

[quote name='WalleyeDave' timestamp='1379989942' post='7901117']
[quote name='BuckyBadger' timestamp='1379710613' post='7885411']
Ugh. Why? I am kind of a stickler on equipment. Why make clubs that are non conforming? What is the point of creating a rift between the USGA and recreational golfers?

What is the definition of a recreational golfer anyway? I think if you have a USGA handicap then you must play conforming clubs.

What if you play in a golf league? Shouldn't you play conforming clubs? What about playing a friendly game for money? I'm not playing a guy that uses non conforming sticks.

This just opens a huge can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. Soon you'll have people wanting to play illegal super distance golf balls etc.

I think this is a very bad idea. It is cheating in my book.
[/quote]I'll worry about conforming clubs in 2024. Not cheating until then.
[/quote]


....i think that only refers to clubs made BEFORE 2010...

[Rebel420]

[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379971075' post='7899219']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379965701' post='7898673']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379956766' post='7897743']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]

You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.
[/quote]

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge.
[/quote]

Very unlikely. "Normal" wedge has, what, 10 000 rpm max? It means about 160 rounds per second. 400 TIMES more spin would mean 64 000 rounds per second.

Golf ball has diameter more or less 43mm. So its perimeter is 122mm. Multiply by 64 000. 7 808 000 mm = 7,8 km. So the speed of perimeter points would be 7,8 km/s, while speed of sound is about 0,3 km/s.

I find it unbelievable.
[/quote]
Engineer? Seriously, though. I love how you actually use math and facts to make your point... Then again, being a math/science/engineer/IT type person myself, go figure!

That claim didn't sound too crazy until you did the math...so I looked up the ad. The person who mentioned this had the facts ALMOST right...it is 400% more spin, which is only 4x the spin...BUT this is why marketing uses 400% instead of 4x--- 1) 400> 4, so it sounds more impressive. 2) a lot of people don't know the difference, and 3) that tiny "%" will often be forgotten

Now 4x the spin I can almost believe. The coefficient of friction of a golf ball I would assume is very low (smooth surface, and at rest, the amount of the surface that actually touches the club face is pretty small. Add in that the finished faces of wedges when these came out was mostly chromed and polished steel...low coefficient of friction here. Now I know when a golf ball is struck it compresses, and the surface of wedges is not perfectly smooth, so there is enough friction there in most wedges, provided struck properly to spin the bejesus out of the ball. So to get more spin, you can either a. Make the ball compress more, so more surface area is in contact with the face, b. us a softer, tackier material for ball cover (which since this is a club, a and b don't apply) c. Make a surface with a higher coefficient of friction (milled/sandblasted vs polished),d. increase the surface area in contact with the ball (raised ridges, which they use)
So with these having a raised, textured surface, you are going beyond friction, but as these ridges dig in, you are now using a bunch of small levers-- in essence, it's a rack and pinion gear

[WalleyeDave]

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1379990862' post='7901207']
[quote name='WalleyeDave' timestamp='1379989942' post='7901117']
[quote name='BuckyBadger' timestamp='1379710613' post='7885411']
Ugh. Why? I am kind of a stickler on equipment. Why make clubs that are non conforming? What is the point of creating a rift between the USGA and recreational golfers?

What is the definition of a recreational golfer anyway? I think if you have a USGA handicap then you must play conforming clubs.

What if you play in a golf league? Shouldn't you play conforming clubs? What about playing a friendly game for money? I'm not playing a guy that uses non conforming sticks.

This just opens a huge can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. Soon you'll have people wanting to play illegal super distance golf balls etc.

I think this is a very bad idea. It is cheating in my book.
[/quote]I'll worry about conforming clubs in 2024. Not cheating until then.
[/quote]


....i think that only refers to clubs made BEFORE 2010...
[/quote]You are correct [url="http://www.randa.org/en/Equipment/Equipment-Search/Informational-Clubs/Groove-Rules-Explained.aspx"]http://www.randa.org/en/Equipment/Equipment-Search/Informational-Clubs/Groove-Rules-Explained.aspx[/url]

[jmvargas]

...if they can produce a driver that will give me an additional 30 yards or more i may buy it and use it for casual rounds-----just to feel again how far i USED to hit it!!

PS:....am almost 68 and started playing in 1958 just so you know why..

[tradpl]

[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1379993901' post='7901527']
[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379971075' post='7899219']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379965701' post='7898673']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379956766' post='7897743']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]

You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.
[/quote]

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge.
[/quote]

Very unlikely. "Normal" wedge has, what, 10 000 rpm max? It means about 160 rounds per second. 400 TIMES more spin would mean 64 000 rounds per second.

Golf ball has diameter more or less 43mm. So its perimeter is 122mm. Multiply by 64 000. 7 808 000 mm = 7,8 km. So the speed of perimeter points would be 7,8 km/s, while speed of sound is about 0,3 km/s.

I find it unbelievable.
[/quote]
Engineer? Seriously, though. I love how you actually use math and facts to make your point... Then again, being a math/science/engineer/IT type person myself, go figure!

That claim didn't sound too crazy until you did the math...so I looked up the ad. The person who mentioned this had the facts ALMOST right...it is 400% more spin, which is only 4x the spin...BUT this is why marketing uses 400% instead of 4x--- 1) 400> 4, so it sounds more impressive. 2) a lot of people don't know the difference, and 3) that tiny "%" will often be forgotten

Now 4x the spin I can almost believe. The coefficient of friction of a golf ball I would assume is very low (smooth surface, and at rest, the amount of the surface that actually touches the club face is pretty small. Add in that the finished faces of wedges when these came out was mostly chromed and polished steel...low coefficient of friction here. Now I know when a golf ball is struck it compresses, and the surface of wedges is not perfectly smooth, so there is enough friction there in most wedges, provided struck properly to spin the bejesus out of the ball. So to get more spin, you can either a. Make the ball compress more, so more surface area is in contact with the face, b. us a softer, tackier material for ball cover (which since this is a club, a and b don't apply) c. Make a surface with a higher coefficient of friction (milled/sandblasted vs polished),d. increase the surface area in contact with the ball (raised ridges, which they use)
So with these having a raised, textured surface, you are going beyond friction, but as these ridges dig in, you are now using a bunch of small levers-- in essence, it's a rack and pinion gear
[/quote]

Yes, I guess 400% is perfectly possible. And yes, I'm math/science/engineer/IT guy too

[SatelliteGuy]

Math on Golf Forum = Brain Damage.

[Rebel420]

[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1380010245' post='7902117']
[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1379993901' post='7901527']
[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379971075' post='7899219']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379965701' post='7898673']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379956766' post='7897743']
You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.
[/quote]

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge.
[/quote]

Very unlikely. "Normal" wedge has, what, 10 000 rpm max? It means about 160 rounds per second. 400 TIMES more spin would mean 64 000 rounds per second.

Golf ball has diameter more or less 43mm. So its perimeter is 122mm. Multiply by 64 000. 7 808 000 mm = 7,8 km. So the speed of perimeter points would be 7,8 km/s, while speed of sound is about 0,3 km/s.

I find it unbelievable.
[/quote]
Engineer? Seriously, though. I love how you actually use math and facts to make your point... Then again, being a math/science/engineer/IT type person myself, go figure!

That claim didn't sound too crazy until you did the math...so I looked up the ad. The person who mentioned this had the facts ALMOST right...it is 400% more spin, which is only 4x the spin...BUT this is why marketing uses 400% instead of 4x--- 1) 400> 4, so it sounds more impressive. 2) a lot of people don't know the difference, and 3) that tiny "%" will often be forgotten

Now 4x the spin I can almost believe. The coefficient of friction of a golf ball I would assume is very low (smooth surface, and at rest, the amount of the surface that actually touches the club face is pretty small. Add in that the finished faces of wedges when these came out was mostly chromed and polished steel...low coefficient of friction here. Now I know when a golf ball is struck it compresses, and the surface of wedges is not perfectly smooth, so there is enough friction there in most wedges, provided struck properly to spin the bejesus out of the ball. So to get more spin, you can either a. Make the ball compress more, so more surface area is in contact with the face, b. us a softer, tackier material for ball cover (which since this is a club, a and b don't apply) c. Make a surface with a higher coefficient of friction (milled/sandblasted vs polished),d. increase the surface area in contact with the ball (raised ridges, which they use)
So with these having a raised, textured surface, you are going beyond friction, but as these ridges dig in, you are now using a bunch of small levers-- in essence, it's a rack and pinion gear
[/quote]

Yes, I guess 400% is perfectly possible. And yes, I'm math/science/engineer/IT guy too
[/quote]

Again.. Marketing at its finest...the site goes on to say "240% - 400% increase over other wedges" - 11,970 RPMs vs other leading wedges tested 2571 - 4750 RPMs... So definitely not testing against the highest spin monsters out there at the 10,000 RPM max you cited...which is only like a 15-17% increase in performance. My bets are you could see that much performance increase going from a cheaper surlyn ball to one of the softer urethane balls, and playing a decent conforming wedge

[finalist]

I am horrible at math... That's why I work in marketing!

Anyway, the spin doc wedge was an absolute blast. We were actually laughing hard at the stopping power, but I wouldn't spend any money on them. It was fun to mess around with for a day, but I don't want to overide all the practice I've done woth conforming wedges. Besides, if anything my pitches and chips come up short more often than long.

[ptjn1201]

I've used non-conforming drivers (some distance gain, but not enough) and wedges in casual rounds. The wedges are fun. I wouldn't use them even for a scramble, but they are good for laughs. My brother-in-law is a very casual golfer, he soles his club in every sand trap -- I've tried to talk him out of it, but after several years, just gave up -- he wasn't going to change. (It's funny though, he won't alter his lie out on the course, and carries a lefty 4 iron for those times he's behind a tree.) We're not playing competitively, it's just to get out there and try to hit some decent shots. For the guys who are just going out to get some exercise and have a good time -- I don't really see a problem. If people think they'll have more fun with deep groove, concave wedges, huge center-shafted drivers with high COR, let them do it -- it really isn't affecting me.

[OUZO Power]

I'm all for it. Make the game more enjoyable for the non competitive golfer. The 2-3 times a year golfer. Anyone that wants to play for fun with no HC.

Heck I don't maintain a HC. I dont go to tournaments or compete.

Be sure as hell I would game thiem if they made the game more fun for me.

[ROBOPTI]

I LOVE !!! the idea ...

I see the purist hypocrits have chimed in ...

Don't think it's fun to go Non-C on a driver. I once had 2 Japanese Non-C Callaway ERC HOT H/S drivers (got em from Tourspec)

They were a JOKE !!!!!!!!! how good and fun they were ... 15-20 past my FT-3s

and it was a blast .....

Ya know .. I never did see the USGA or Ken Venturi hiding in the trees to see what driver I was hitting

I will support any OEM that defies the USGA .... Who's rules to me - have become truly rediculous

[OUZO Power]

And for those that are against it. On a sunday round have you never played with a once in a moon player? You enjoy seeing them hit over 100?

[Big Ben]

[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1379993901' post='7901527']
[quote name='tradpl' timestamp='1379971075' post='7899219']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379965701' post='7898673']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379956766' post='7897743']
[quote name='finalist' timestamp='1379955878' post='7897659']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379954122' post='7897505']
Let's cut to the chase...we all know who is going to buy this NC gear...the guy who is trying to scam all the scrambles and league play events around every muni in the country. The so called "rec" golfer is not going to shell out the cash for this gear.
[/quote]

A lot of people here are assuming the NC gear will be branded TM or even look like conforming gear. I don't think TM will make NC gear to trick people. It will be very obviously a side branded business. TM owns lots of small companies that could become the flag for this idea.
[/quote]

You make a valid point, so it does remain to be seen. This is a slippery slope, however. If you make the gear so far removed from looking like a legit gear than I don't think it sells.
[/quote]

Have you ever seen Spin Doctor wedges in person? They have a model that produces 400 TIMES more spin than a conforming wedge.
[/quote]

Very unlikely. "Normal" wedge has, what, 10 000 rpm max? It means about 160 rounds per second. 400 TIMES more spin would mean 64 000 rounds per second.

Golf ball has diameter more or less 43mm. So its perimeter is 122mm. Multiply by 64 000. 7 808 000 mm = 7,8 km. So the speed of perimeter points would be 7,8 km/s, while speed of sound is about 0,3 km/s.

I find it unbelievable.
[/quote]
Engineer? Seriously, though. I love how you actually use math and facts to make your point... Then again, being a math/science/engineer/IT type person myself, go figure!

That claim didn't sound too crazy until you did the math...so I looked up the ad. The person who mentioned this had the facts ALMOST right...it is 400% more spin, which is only 4x the spin...BUT this is why marketing uses 400% instead of 4x--- 1) 400> 4, so it sounds more impressive. 2) a lot of people don't know the difference, and 3) that tiny "%" will often be forgotten

Now 4x the spin I can almost believe. The coefficient of friction of a golf ball I would assume is very low (smooth surface, and at rest, the amount of the surface that actually touches the club face is pretty small. Add in that the finished faces of wedges when these came out was mostly chromed and polished steel...low coefficient of friction here. Now I know when a golf ball is struck it compresses, and the surface of wedges is not perfectly smooth, so there is enough friction there in most wedges, provided struck properly to spin the bejesus out of the ball. So to get more spin, you can either a. Make the ball compress more, so more surface area is in contact with the face, b. us a softer, tackier material for ball cover (which since this is a club, a and b don't apply) c. Make a surface with a higher coefficient of friction (milled/sandblasted vs polished),d. increase the surface area in contact with the ball (raised ridges, which they use)
So with these having a raised, textured surface, you are going beyond friction, but as these ridges dig in, you are now using a bunch of small levers-- in essence, it's a rack and pinion gear
[/quote]Based on a few reads I guess the ball doesn't actually compress as much as it mushrooms over the face, not sure of the difference from an energy transfer standpoint cuz this cat definitely ain't no math whizz...BB

[Sky High Handicap]

Clubs and Balls that help to promote straighter shots off the tee, go a long way to increase the enjoyment and appreciation of the game. Many people try hard and still make double-bogey, because they aren't in the fairway very often. For that person, bogeys are common, pars feel like birdies, and birdies feel like eagles. That person doesn't have a good short game, but he gets a tremendous boost of confidence if his second shot is from the fairway. Make the teebox a confidence boost, and you'll see more people who try the game end up sticking with it.

[ElJefe26]

Forgive me if this has been covered, but I wasn't going to read all 7 pages of the thread to ensure it's prior non-existence...

To the question of producing non-conforming clubs and the use of such being called cheating, I question the high horse on which some people find themselves. For USGA competitions, I absolutely agree that use of such clubs is wrong. But the restrictions on conforming clubs is an artificial line. If some folks go buy the non-conforming clubs and play them in a club tournament, is that really such a big deal? Like many of you, I still use fairway woods from several years back, which don't come anywhere near maxing out near the COR limit. But the fact that some guy in my group might use a 2013 model that does max out COR does not concern me at all. He has a club that perhaps a robot can hit farther, and maybe even him, too, on occasion. But I don't feel like it's cheating if he has a .825 COR fairway wood, and I have a .780 COR fairway wood. Where the line is drawn is somewhat arbitrary, and significant differences exist in COR on some woods in players' bags right now, all of which are legal. Are we who are playing the .780 COR wood insisting that our partner or player who is using the .825 is cheating? What if we are using a .800 COR fairway wood, and our partner is using a .845 fairway wood? Same COR gap, just the line is in between the two in the latter example. The advantage is roughly the same, though, in both cases. So what's the big darn deal? The club still does not swing itself, nor make the ball go straight regardless of the swing.

From another viewpoint, if non-conforming clubs make the guys on the blue tees who should be on the white tees play longer and better of the tee, thus reducing slow play, then I'll purchase the clubs for them!!

[irwinfletcher77]

[quote name='ksuchris2000' timestamp='1379986269' post='7900711']
I constantly read these self complimenting, aggrandizing claims of wrxers being the top % of golfers. I'm calling bs. I'm betting 9 of 10 members of this site couldn't break 80 on a decent course playing by the rules of golf.
[/quote]

Amen!!!

[QEight]

[quote name='ElJefe26' timestamp='1380067326' post='7906037']
To the question of producing non-conforming clubs and the use of such being called cheating, I question the high horse on which some people find themselves. For USGA competitions, I absolutely agree that use of such clubs is wrong. But the restrictions on conforming clubs is an artificial line. If some folks go buy the non-conforming clubs and play them in a club tournament, is that really such a big deal?[/quote]

Which are the other rules you will turn your blind eye on when playing club tournaments?

Looks like there are only to type of golfers on this board:[list]
[*]USGA/R&A rules strickler who plays hickory shafts and cause only pain for everybody else
[*]Rebels with everything goes, as long as it is against USGA, the ones bringing millions of new golfers in
[/list]

[soregongolfer]

[quote name='Walkerdb7' timestamp='1379707061' post='7885037']
At the risk of being chirped and sounding like a hack, we shouldn't be held to the same standards as pros for equipment...

recreational adult softball and little leaguers use synthetic bats for a reason... Pros use wood for a reason...
[/quote]

Bad analogy. Cost is the reason Little Leaguers don't use wood bats. As far as softball, there is no pro league and everybody uses aluminum or poly bats. That's includes the Super Major players that are all 6'2" and 250 lbs and hit softballs 400 feet.

[talksalot81]

Ach the argument is getting silly. Unless someone intentionally goes out there to buy a non-conforming club to try to win something, it is hardly cheating. It is just making your life that bit easier. For goodness sakes, the majority of WRXers seem to intentionally disadvantage themselves with blades which even the pros are anxious to play - the advantage someone is going to get from a non-C club is not likely to be half as significant as the advantage they get because they play an SGI iron versus the WRXer with MP4s!

Boiling it all down though, there is a handicap system. If they play with Non-C clubs then their handicap will probably go down to reflect it. Yeah, they might be getting lower scores than their swing deserves, but they are going to be getting fewer shots. I don't actually see that they end up having a competitive edge on you.

[J13]

If someone goes out and plays with non conforming clubs but is playing for fun then have at it. Your not bothering me at all. If you want to keep a USGA hcp then you have to obide by the rules set forth by them.

Why does anyone care about what clubs people use if it's just for fun and enjoyment and not competition??

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='J13' timestamp='1380108808' post='7907691']
If someone goes out and plays with non conforming clubs but is playing for fun then have at it. Your not bothering me at all. [b]If you want to keep a USGA hcp then you have to obide by the rules set forth by them.[/b]

Why does anyone care about what clubs people use if it's just for fun and enjoyment and not competition??
[/quote]

thats the only way we are going to be able to govern and enforce the belly putter rule in 2 years. if our member want to keep using a belly putter we have to tell them they can no longer keep a USGA handicap with us since they arent playing by the rules of the game. it'll be the same thing if non conforming clubs come out.

[Sky High Handicap]

If someone asks me what my handicap is, I will say "golf".