Anyone know about the rumoured TMAG non-conforming range?

[wobgon]

[quote name='talksalot81' timestamp='1380107211' post='7907667']
Ach the argument is getting silly. Unless someone intentionally goes out there to buy a non-conforming club to try to win something, it is hardly cheating. It is just making your life that bit easier. For goodness sakes, the majority of WRXers seem to intentionally disadvantage themselves with blades which even the pros are anxious to play - the advantage someone is going to get from a non-C club is not likely to be half as significant as the advantage they get because they play an SGI iron versus the WRXer with MP4s!

Boiling it all down though, there is a handicap system. If they play with Non-C clubs then their handicap will probably go down to reflect it. Yeah, they might be getting lower scores than their swing deserves, but they are going to be getting fewer shots. I don't actually see that they end up having a competitive edge on you.
[/quote]
I really do not like to bring the word cheating into this but one thing that is a fact and cannot be disputed, If you turn in a score using a no conforming club, you are cheating.....If you and your buddy want to go out and play for fun ,use a baseball bat if you please.

[talksalot81]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1380113705' post='7907897']
I really do not like to bring the word cheating into this but one thing that is a fact and cannot be disputed, If you turn in a score using a no conforming club, you are cheating.....If you and your buddy want to go out and play for fun ,use a baseball bat if you please.
[/quote]

With all respect, I think you and others are taking this way too seriously. It is a game for goodness sakes! We are not talking about serious competitive golf, this is recreational golf. As I said, even if someone does use NC clubs, they will have a handicap to reflect it. If they ever try to play serious golf, they will have to change clubs and will be back on level pegging with everyone else. The only real trouble I see is that those using conforming clubs will have some personal ego thing going on because they have the same handicap as a lesser golfer with NC clubs.

If we want to push the cheating thing, I know there are plenty of guys on here who are into their training and supplements - put to a drug test you will probably fined prohibited substances in their systems and they probably wouldn't have a clue.

We need a bit of perspective here and I strongly believe that it would be better to have it all out in the open. If there was an accepted way of showing a club to be NC, then it is easy to stop their use in serious competition. By accepting the use in more recreational play, the effects can be negated through the handicapping system and there is no competitive advantage. We all still get to play on an equal footing and the guys who struggle and need more help are able to enjoy the game that bit more.

[_MS22_]

I'm honestly surprised that many of the comments are negative towards OEMs supplying NC equipment for the casual players. I wholeheartedly agree that you should have to play conforming equipment to carry a USGA handicap and play tournaments but for the AVERAGE golfer this is a good move in my opinion. I highly doubt in any tournament setting you'll see people sneaking these into competition; everyone will know what they look like as the attention they draw upon announcement will be huge. It will be known they are NC and anyone using them would be shamed beyond belief and I'd surely call them on it.

For all the:
"Man the game sure is SLOW......"
"SLOW PLAY IS KILLING THE GAME!!!!!!!"
"People suck!!!"

Those type threads that get made every 5 seconds on here you'd think anything to help the average hacker play a longer, straighter, and henceforth FASTER round would be welcomed by the sub 2.5hr round plus handicapper curmudgeons on here but nope just another reason to bash TMAG.......

[QEight]

Until I am proven wrong I do not believe these equipment will help at all in speeding up the play. People will just move to back tees more...

[bph7]

If TMAG really did this, wrx would explode.

[Rebel420]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1380120776' post='7908359']
If TMAG really did this, wrx would explode.
[/quote]
Or would it implode?

Seriously, though, everyone talks about how "IF someone releases NC equipment".... Folks, I could go out over lunch, hit KMart, resale shop, golf galaxy used bin etc, and put together a bag with over 460cc driver, irons/wedges with NC grooves, illegal putter, NC balls, buy a slope rangefinder and use the compass and gps on my iphone RIGHT NOW! And no one would care if we were playing a fun round.

To say that is giving someone an unfair advantage over someone using cc equipment, yes and no. If I'm allowed to use it, you have equal opportunity to buy and use it as well.
So even if a local tournament allows the use of the equipment (the "local rules" clauses being reallllyy stretched here), complaining that someone using NC equipment over your conforming, retail equipment has as much merit as someone in the same tournament using older equipment complaining that your modern equipment gives you an advantage. Wouldn't the use of "for tour use only" equipment be argued gives an advantage over OTR equipment?

Really, lighten up. This doesn't hurt anyone It's just another reason for sheeple to jump on the anti-TM bandwagon.

[bph7]

[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1380124472' post='7908679']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1380120776' post='7908359']
If TMAG really did this, wrx would explode.
[/quote]
Or would it implode?

Seriously, though, everyone talks about how "IF someone releases NC equipment".... Folks, I could go out over lunch, hit KMart, resale shop, golf galaxy used bin etc, and put together a bag with over 460cc driver, irons/wedges with NC grooves, illegal putter, NC balls, buy a slope rangefinder and use the compass and gps on my iphone RIGHT NOW! And no one would care if we were playing a fun round.

To say that is giving someone an unfair advantage over someone using cc equipment, yes and no. If I'm allowed to use it, you have equal opportunity to buy and use it as well.
So even if a local tournament allows the use of the equipment (the "local rules" clauses being reallllyy stretched here), complaining that someone using NC equipment over your conforming, retail equipment has as much merit as someone in the same tournament using older equipment complaining that your modern equipment gives you an advantage. Wouldn't the use of "for tour use only" equipment be argued gives an advantage over OTR equipment?

Really, lighten up. This doesn't hurt anyone It's just another reason for sheeple to jump on the anti-TM bandwagon.
[/quote]

Oh, I personally agree with you. I don't care at all. Reasons that high COR stuff doesn't bother me: For one, There is nothing inherently "right" about .83 COR such that golf requires it. It's just an arbitrary standard. For two, this won't increase distance that much for most. For three, it's a game, have fun, I don't care what you do. I was just saying that, based on the responses to this thread and how is DOES seem to really both some, it is gonna be interesting if they actually do it.

[Rebel420]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1380124773' post='7908703']
[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1380124472' post='7908679']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1380120776' post='7908359']
If TMAG really did this, wrx would explode.
[/quote]
Or would it implode?

Seriously, though, everyone talks about how "IF someone releases NC equipment".... Folks, I could go out over lunch, hit KMart, resale shop, golf galaxy used bin etc, and put together a bag with over 460cc driver, irons/wedges with NC grooves, illegal putter, NC balls, buy a slope rangefinder and use the compass and gps on my iphone RIGHT NOW! And no one would care if we were playing a fun round.

To say that is giving someone an unfair advantage over someone using cc equipment, yes and no. If I'm allowed to use it, you have equal opportunity to buy and use it as well.
So even if a local tournament allows the use of the equipment (the "local rules" clauses being reallllyy stretched here), complaining that someone using NC equipment over your conforming, retail equipment has as much merit as someone in the same tournament using older equipment complaining that your modern equipment gives you an advantage. Wouldn't the use of "for tour use only" equipment be argued gives an advantage over OTR equipment?

Really, lighten up. This doesn't hurt anyone It's just another reason for sheeple to jump on the anti-TM bandwagon.
[/quote]

Oh, I personally agree with you. I don't care at all. Reasons that high COR stuff doesn't bother me: For one, There is nothing inherently "right" about .83 COR such that golf requires it. It's just an arbitrary standard. For two, this won't increase distance that much for most. For three, it's a game, have fun, I don't care what you do. I was just saying that, based on the responses to this thread and how is DOES seem to really both some, it is gonna be interesting if they actually do it.
[/quote]
Exactly. So the high HC who plays a driver with a higher COR, who consistently can't hit his driver, and has a 90mph swing will now be able to have a smash factor of 1.3 vs 1.25 using conforming gear is really not a threat. Likewise, him using that in competition with me isn't going to be the cause of me blading my 10yd flop shot 39yds over the green and into the lake.

And if you think about it, the same reasons why this isn't a big threat is basically why none f us game a 48" long drive driver- We would rather be a few yds shorter, but in the fairway.

At the end of the day, I'd be willing to play a round with anyone here, regardless if they use a .900 COR driver or a persimmon.their advantage may help them off the tee, but it won't fix their other mistakes, and it sure as heck won't be the cause of mine! It's all about having fun, enjoying the day not at the office, and hey, first round of drinks afterward are on me!

[new2g0lf]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379951436' post='7897305']
So what is the goal? To make the game easier and shoot better scores? Why doesn't each course just put a set of tees up near the ladies tees and designate them "The Non-Conforming" tees and than cut garbage can size holes in each green and designate them "The Non-Conforming" holes and put different flags on them.

Better yet, why don't people just show up at the course, grab a scorecard, write 75 on it and just go have a beer? Save the greens fee money and lost balls.
[/quote]

That won't work, people today don't want to work hard for their results, they just to give the appearance to others that they are. Teeing off from the ladies tees and putting into 1' holes would be too obvious they are lazy and not interested in learning to play the game properly.

They'd much prefer to use jacked up clubs and balls with just the right amount of foot wedges, mulligans, and gimme putts sprinkled in to make it appear they are actually playing the same game the rest of us are.

[Rebel420]

[quote name='new2g0lf' timestamp='1380125880' post='7908803']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1379951436' post='7897305']
So what is the goal? To make the game easier and shoot better scores? Why doesn't each course just put a set of tees up near the ladies tees and designate them "The Non-Conforming" tees and than cut garbage can size holes in each green and designate them "The Non-Conforming" holes and put different flags on them.

Better yet, why don't people just show up at the course, grab a scorecard, write 75 on it and just go have a beer? Save the greens fee money and lost balls.
[/quote]

That won't work, people today don't want to work hard for their results, they just to give the appearance to others that they are. Teeing off from the ladies tees and putting into 1' holes would be too obvious they are lazy and not interested in learning to play the game properly.

They'd much prefer to use jacked up clubs and balls with just the right amount of foot wedges, mulligans, and gimme putts sprinkled in to make it appear they are actually playing the same game the rest of us are.
[/quote]
Don't forget the anti-slice tees, white belts, staff bags, and the 10 minute pre shot routine including 20 practice swings, plum bobbing the green from 12 angles, and the obligatory cursing in their native tongue ala Sergio after they choke on a shot. But remember, there is an excuse for every shot, and it's never "I should a practice more"

[ShutSteepStuck]

I would buy my 57-year-old pops a .900 COR 11*+ driver in a heartbeat. Although he may win a few extra bucks off me, it would be worth it seeing seeing him turn back the clock about 10 years or so off the tee--not to mention the look on his face when he's pulling 7i instead of a 6i or 5i on a few of his approaches.

[Rustynuts]

What is the point? So we are targeting weekend hacks who don't play competitions are the ones who will get the most benefit out of it? These are the same people who couldn't spin a ball intentionally anyway and having a .900 driver will go just as wayward as a normal driver. So therefore what is the point? so they can hit one in twenty tee shots ten yards further? It is a waste of time and if it is from TM it would be pretty typical of them.

[wobgon]

[quote name='talksalot81' timestamp='1380114719' post='7907929']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1380113705' post='7907897']
I really do not like to bring the word cheating into this but one thing that is a fact and cannot be disputed, If you turn in a score using a no conforming club, you are cheating.....If you and your buddy want to go out and play for fun ,use a baseball bat if you please.
[/quote]

With all respect, I think you and others are taking this way too seriously. It is a game for goodness sakes! We are not talking about serious competitive golf, this is recreational golf. As I said, even if someone does use NC clubs, they will have a handicap to reflect it. If they ever try to play serious golf, they will have to change clubs and will be back on level pegging with everyone else. The only real trouble I see is that those using conforming clubs will have some personal ego thing going on because they have the same handicap as a lesser golfer with NC clubs.

If we want to push the cheating thing, I know there are plenty of guys on here who are into their training and supplements - put to a drug test you will probably fined prohibited substances in their systems and they probably wouldn't have a clue.

We need a bit of perspective here and I strongly believe that it would be better to have it all out in the open. If there was an accepted way of showing a club to be NC, then it is easy to stop their use in serious competition. By accepting the use in more recreational play, the effects can be negated through the handicapping system and there is no competitive advantage. We all still get to play on an equal footing and the guys who struggle and need more help are able to enjoy the game that bit more.
[/quote]
So am i to understand that you feel people should use the USGA's HC system but disregard the USGA's rules.....

[phil75070]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379784402' post='7889275']

I am sure you understand that in none of these situations scores should be handed in for handicap.......
[/quote]
Personally, if a guy wants to roll the ball all the time, be generous in giving himself putts, never play stroke and distance I really don't care as he is just hurting himself by lowering his handicap artificially. Get in a tournament where he has to play strictly by the Rules and all of a sudden he can't shoot anywhere near the scores he is used to posting. I much prefer that over sandbagging.

[Quasimoto]

Question here that maybe the engineering types could answer.

What is the max COR available from both a theoretical and practical view? Is 1:1 achievable just using materials and no other devices?

Thanks,

[wobgon]

[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1380157626' post='7911463']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379784402' post='7889275']
I am sure you understand that in none of these situations scores should be handed in for handicap.......
[/quote]
Personally, if a guy wants to roll the ball all the time, be generous in giving himself putts, never play stroke and distance I really don't care as he is just hurting himself by lowering his handicap artificially. Get in a tournament where he has to play strictly by the Rules and all of a sudden he can't shoot anywhere near the scores he is used to posting. I much prefer that over sandbagging.
[/quote]
So do i but i still stand behind my statement....

[drbonesvt]

Would this not slow the game down more? So the "weekender" will be even further off line, don't they already make an anti slice ball, I think that would make more of a difference than the "BALCO" equipment.

[simonmax]

If it keeps more people interested in the sport and therefore keeps more courses open or lowers green fees, then hard to see what the real problem is with this. People playing non-conforming clubs are very unlikely to play competitions and are most likely in the massive majority of people who play golf a few times a year so couldn't care less about having a handicap. Why not take an inclusive approach to sport and be contented with knowing you're in the top dog group? I don't care if the guy playing with me has conforming or non-conforming clubs. I value and care about my own game and value the company of my playing partner for 3-4 hours.

[TomWishon]

[quote name='simonmax' timestamp='1380194261' post='7913027']
If it keeps more people interested in the sport and therefore keeps more courses open or lowers green fees, then hard to see what the real problem is with this. People playing non-conforming clubs are very unlikely to play competitions and are most likely in the massive majority of people who play golf a few times a year so couldn't care less about having a handicap. Why not take an inclusive approach to sport and be contented with knowing you're in the top dog group? I don't care if the guy playing with me has conforming or non-conforming clubs. I value and care about my own game and value the company of my playing partner for 3-4 hours.
[/quote]

This comment is very well stated. When the game undergoes a period in which participation and the number of players decreases, as what has been happening since the recession hit, every golfer loses in some manner. Courses close, fees can go up, condition of the courses can be cut back, fewer advances in all areas of the game can be achieved, and so on.

Look at some of the things famous players are beginning to endorse to help increase participation such as "Play it Forward" or using larger size cups on greens, etc - things to get more people out to play or play more often. When more people play and play more often, the game is better for it overall. So if a casual, non competitive groups of golfers get more enjoyment from playing with non conforming equipment and end up playing more or playing later into their lives, the game does benefit.

[_MS22_]

[quote name='Quasimoto' timestamp='1380160207' post='7911713']
Question here that maybe the engineering types could answer.

What is the max COR available from both a theoretical and practical view? Is 1:1 achievable just using materials and no other devices?

Thanks,
[/quote]

For all intents and purposes in theory a COR of 1.0 is achievable. Based on mathematics; in a perfect system at near absolute zero where adiabatic compression approaches zero is it achievable.

In laboratory settings CORs of 0.995 have been documented. These are not applicable experiments to everyday use.

According to patents I've seen club heads ranging from 0.88 to 0.91 have been measured using certain alloys and manufacturing processes. From a practical view the 0.91 number is just about "maxed out" using todays technology.

[Rebel420]

One point that was made, is that you will have a "better" player using non conforming clubs in a scramble, tournament etc.

One thing that was not mentioned is that yes, the NC clubs may give an advantage, but probably less than the typical "sandbagging" a lot of guys do.

And the biggest point missed was that, I think we all have played in scramble/best ball tournaments/rounds at one time or another in our lives- As per the USGA, "A scramble format is not covered under the Rules of Golf". And if you want to be technical, the nature of a scramble directly violates the biggest rule- "play the ball as it lies"

Therefor, by the logic that if a NC clubs are made by big OEM (and remember, there are many NC clubs available today, new and used), it is no more cheating if allowed in a tournament as it is "cheating" to participate in a scramble.

In other words, instead of nitpicking this topic, let's all go have fun, and play golf!

[new2g0lf]

I really don't care if people want to use non-conforming clubs, they already exist if someone wants to buy and use them.

The issue I have is with TMAG and their attempt to utilize the equipment decisions by the R&A / USGA to turn golfers against the USGA just so they can sell more equipment. Let's be realistic, golf is a hard sport to be good at. Most people will never hit a driver 300 yards right to the middle of a fairway or hit a 8i shot onto a green that rolls back into the cup with conforming or non-conforming clubs. What's next for these people that spend 1000's of dollars on non-conforming drivers, irons and balls when they head out to the course and find out they still suck at golf.

If TMAG really wanted to save the industry and keep people on the course they'd offer free golf lessons, not try to bilk people out of more of their money.

[Rebel420]

[quote name='new2g0lf' timestamp='1380225730' post='7915593']
I really don't care if people want to use non-conforming clubs, they already exist if someone wants to buy and use them.

The issue I have is with TMAG and their attempt to utilize the equipment decisions by the R&A / USGA to turn golfers against the USGA just so they can sell more equipment. Let's be realistic, golf is a hard sport to be good at. Most people will never hit a driver 300 yards right to the middle of a fairway or hit a 8i shot onto a green that rolls back into the cup with conforming or non-conforming clubs. What's next for these people that spend 1000's of dollars on non-conforming drivers, irons and balls when they head out to the course and find out they still suck at golf.

If TMAG really wanted to save the industry and keep people on the course they'd offer free golf lessons, not try to bilk people out of more of their money.
[/quote]
Golf is just like anything that people are passionate about... Religion, drugs, alcohol, gambling, politics, diets, exercise programs.... People want the fast fix, and they pay for hope. So the "hope dope dealer" (*shamelessly borrowed from Jello Biafara) can sell whatever they want to sell that fix of hope, and pleasure.
Single out Taylormade, because that is what folks do here on BSG, but as I said before, there always has been and there always will be someone selling no conforming gear, just like there will always be "best ball scrambles".

The only reason TM will be the first to market this now, is not some conspiracy to overthrow the USGA or make people hate them. It is because they know they can afford to take the risk and test the market, and don't think for a second any other OEM out there wouldn't do it first if they could afford to... And don't think they all are not going to be right on TM's coat tails.

I don't think the NC equipment is going to "ruin" the game of golf any more than "gutter bumpers" did bowling, "tee ball" did baseball, "lower hoops" did basketball, "low compression tennis balls" did tennis, training wheels did to bicycling, gps and laser did to golf. Not everyone has the time to take lessons and practice. Guess what, some people still do practice and take lessons, and still suck at the game, but love it, and want to stil play. They know they won't ever "compete" but want to have that last Sunday of the month round with their kids or parents or grandparents... The wife who wants to walk with her retired husband in he morning (or younger wife who between her job and his job, only really see each other a few hours each weekend)... What does it hurt to let them have fun. And if it needs to have better quality NC equipment, oh well

[new2g0lf]

[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1380227496' post='7915763']
[quote name='new2g0lf' timestamp='1380225730' post='7915593']
I really don't care if people want to use non-conforming clubs, they already exist if someone wants to buy and use them.

The issue I have is with TMAG and their attempt to utilize the equipment decisions by the R&A / USGA to turn golfers against the USGA just so they can sell more equipment. Let's be realistic, golf is a hard sport to be good at. Most people will never hit a driver 300 yards right to the middle of a fairway or hit a 8i shot onto a green that rolls back into the cup with conforming or non-conforming clubs. What's next for these people that spend 1000's of dollars on non-conforming drivers, irons and balls when they head out to the course and find out they still suck at golf.

If TMAG really wanted to save the industry and keep people on the course they'd offer free golf lessons, not try to bilk people out of more of their money.
[/quote]
Golf is just like anything that people are passionate about... Religion, drugs, alcohol, gambling, politics, diets, exercise programs.... People want the fast fix, and they pay for hope. So the "hope dope dealer" (*shamelessly borrowed from Jello Biafara) can sell whatever they want to sell that fix of hope, and pleasure.
Single out Taylormade, because that is what folks do here on BSG, but as I said before, there always has been and there always will be someone selling no conforming gear, just like there will always be "best ball scrambles".

The only reason TM will be the first to market this now, is not some conspiracy to overthrow the USGA or make people hate them. It is because they know they can afford to take the risk and test the market, and don't think for a second any other OEM out there wouldn't do it first if they could afford to... And don't think they all are not going to be right on TM's coat tails.

I don't think the NC equipment is going to "ruin" the game of golf any more than "gutter bumpers" did bowling, "tee ball" did baseball, "lower hoops" did basketball, "low compression tennis balls" did tennis, training wheels did to bicycling, gps and laser did to golf. Not everyone has the time to take lessons and practice. Guess what, some people still do practice and take lessons, and still suck at the game, but love it, and want to stil play. They know they won't ever "compete" but want to have that last Sunday of the month round with their kids or parents or grandparents... The wife who wants to walk with her retired husband in he morning (or younger wife who between her job and his job, only really see each other a few hours each weekend)... What does it hurt to let them have fun. And if it needs to have better quality NC equipment, oh well
[/quote]

TMAG has been very vocal about their issues with USGA so not sure why you're sugarcoating it. King declared war on the USGA for banning anchored putting, call it like it is.

As for NC equipment ruining the game, of course it won't, but when's the last time you saw a group of adults intentionally bowling with the bumpers down? When's the last time you saw an adult riding a Trek bike with training wheels? Lesser skilled or older adults play slow pitch softball not tee ball.

All these things you're using to compare NC equipment to (except low compression tennis balls, which I've never seen) were designed for kids, not adults. Unless the golf balls have remote controls, these NC drivers, irons and balls won't make the game simpler, it will just make TMAG richer. I've yet to see any ball or driver combination that prevents a slice or a hook, have you?

[Rustynuts]

How will it bring more people to the game? Drivers go about 30 yards longer than they did 20 years ago, do they not go far enough as it is?

[drbonesvt]

They might actually get the promised 27 yards everyone is owed

[Quasimoto]

[quote name='_MS22_' timestamp='1380208741' post='7914041']
[quote name='Quasimoto' timestamp='1380160207' post='7911713']
Question here that maybe the engineering types could answer.

What is the max COR available from both a theoretical and practical view? Is 1:1 achievable just using materials and no other devices?

Thanks,
[/quote]

For all intents and purposes in theory a COR of 1.0 is achievable. Based on mathematics; in a perfect system at near absolute zero where adiabatic compression approaches zero is it achievable.

In laboratory settings CORs of 0.995 have been documented. These are not applicable experiments to everyday use.

According to patents I've seen club heads ranging from 0.88 to 0.91 have been measured using certain alloys and manufacturing processes. From a practical view the 0.91 number is just about "maxed out" using todays technology.
[/quote]

Thank you for that MS22, very good info.

[jmvargas]

[quote name='mizunopure' timestamp='1380139432' post='7909925']
I would buy my 57-year-old pops a .900 COR 11*+ driver in a heartbeat. Although he may win a few extra bucks off me, it would be worth it seeing seeing him turn back the clock about 10 years or so off the tee--not to mention the look on his face when he's pulling 7i instead of a 6i or 5i on a few of his approaches.
[/quote]

...i think this could be a typical buyer for these clubs...

....and i hope my son is reading this!!!

[ElJefe26]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1380095676' post='7907511']
[quote name='ElJefe26' timestamp='1380067326' post='7906037']
To the question of producing non-conforming clubs and the use of such being called cheating, I question the high horse on which some people find themselves. For USGA competitions, I absolutely agree that use of such clubs is wrong. But the restrictions on conforming clubs is an artificial line. If some folks go buy the non-conforming clubs and play them in a club tournament, is that really such a big deal?[/quote]

Which are the other rules you will turn your blind eye on when playing club tournaments?

Looks like there are only to type of golfers on this board:[list]
[*]USGA/R&A rules strickler who plays hickory shafts and cause only pain for everybody else
[*]Rebels with everything goes, as long as it is against USGA, the ones bringing millions of new golfers in
[/list]
[/quote]

For playing club tournaments, I wouldn't overlook other rules. To me there is a distinction between playing rules, and equipment rules. I wouldn't turn a blind eye to the playing rules. On the other hand, the equipment rules--except at the very highest levels of the game--are pretty much useless, in my opinion. With all of the variation within a single golfer's swing, the thing having the least effect, I think, is the COR of said player's driver of fairway wood, or the size of his clubheads. If a guy needs/wants a 600cc driver with a .900 COR and a 48" shaft just to be able to hit something less than a hybrid into a par 4 green, you probably don't need to worry about that guy in the club tourney, anyway. I would be worried about a guy who uses a foot wedge to achieve a better lie, though; that player truly is bending the rules for a perceptible advantage.

[wmblake2000]

I am sort of shocked it has taken them this long. All the major oems drive sales by longer or perceived longer clubs. Seems like a conference call among oem CEOs to all agree to major non-conforming launches would be a natural action to take. I don't want this to happen, but if I were ceo of oems I am sure I'd want to do this.