Anyone know about the rumoured TMAG non-conforming range?

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='wundej' timestamp='1379798129' post='7890155']
If I didn't play in a league, I would have no issues playing non conforming clubs. Recreational golfers should have every advantage possible. It is a game for fun. It is hard enough and if 500cc drivers help people hit straighter and are more forgiving, who cares?

Competition needs rules, usga handles that (there are a number of rules of golf that are completely stupid, so don't forget that) and why should anyone care what clubs I play unless it is a competition?

Should all men also have to play from the black tees because that is where the pros play? Little league and collage baseball should only use wood bats? I know it is a little different but as log as they are marked unconforming in some way it shouldn't matter.
[/quote]

Great point using baseball equipment, very good analogy with MLB vs. lower levels of baseball.

Although they are on a trend towards woodbats in all levels of baseball because of safety concerns with balls being hit at too high of speeds.

[new2g0lf]

Non-issue, non-event. There are already companies out there making non-conforming clubs and balls, but they aren't mainstream so no one cares.

TMag can throw their hat into this market as long as they don't dupe people into thinking the clubs and balls are conforming. I can imagine some less informed golfers are going to get disqualified from a tournament somewhere along the way for using this equipment and then there will be a backlash but otherwise I don't see the issue.

As others have said, 90% of people that golf don't belong to a club, maintain a handicap or compete in tournaments so who cares if they hit their driver 20 extra yards into the woods.

[Bill3508]

I don't have a problem with it. I just bought a non-conforming JDM driver. At best before I could only drive the ball around 230-240. I'm 5'6" 160 and just don't develop much swing speed. I've shot mid to high 70s on average before but it was all short game. I barely carry the ball much over 200-210 so playing some courses with long hazards off the tee are sometimes just impossible. I don't play tournaments or scrambles,just play with friends. No problem with the idea.

[TheMoneyShot]

This thread is hilarious....

[Thug Hunter]

Unless they make pop up bumpers for putters like they have in bowling, I don't see golfers scoring better with non-conforming equipment. Scoring is done around the greens and non-conforming clubs aren't going to make a bit of difference in that case. Vokey wedges from a few years ago aren't conforming, but I see a ton of them still being used. Guys still can't get up and down.

No big threat, IMO.

[myspinonit]

So the clubs and groups with the older guy with palsy who needs an anchored putter stroke to continue to enjoy the game he's played for most of his life may not be able to use it [u]unless t[/u]he local club inovokes a local rule (I'm presuming in common-sense that will be part of the final anchoring policy).

But the guy who has a less obvious non-conformng driver (or whatever) in his bag will just get away with it unless someone is the rules police at a local level.


Yeah, right, that will fly well.

[wobgon]

Lets call it a tie....

[dlygrisse]

Where will it end? Why not just shoot the ball from a cannon? I mean cheating is cheating.

[Oldplayer]

What about millions of other players that don't live in the USA? I live in Australia and play club golf under the R&A rules. We are different to the States. I have read in this thread that a very high percentage of golfers don't have a handicap or play in sanctioned events. It is the opposite here. The vast majority of regular golfers are club members and play all their competition golf (which are most rounds they play) to the letter of the rules and to an official handicap).
TM is a global company obviously and is looking for global sales. If these proposed illegal clubs were not sanctioned by the R&A then they are useless to us, whether we wanted to play them or not. All it would do is create a whole lot of problems if players have the opportunity to illegally use this equipment. Bag checks before every club round? How is that gonna fly?
It seems to me that TM has identified a new market; maybe a big one and wants to cash in big time. Forget about being good for the game or any other arguments. This if it happened would purely be a cash grap by TM and only create problems for club golf like we play here.
TM wouldn't give a toss about club golf in my country or the many dedicated players who love the game. To see this move as positive from my point of view is misguided.

[Shambles]

It's a mistake to assume a club is advantageous just because it's non conforming. With every design that makes it to the market, there are normally trade offs. J's secret weapon proved to be simply a low lofted club, the ERC did not give everybody an advantage, nor the Euro Pros who were allowed to use it more exciting scores, and the U grooves of the Eye 2 that the USGA and R&A ferociously fought never made anyone into an overnight pro. Non conforming is simply not in accordance to specifications that the ruling bodies are dictating and we follow the rule where reasonable, and lately, if affordable. If TM is challenging that rule, we will undoubtedly take a look at what they produce but the bottom line will, as has always been, buy it if it works for you.

Spin is said to be advantageous and some wedges with very aggressive grooves truly made spin easy, but proved unpopular because they ate up balls. You can see those clubs selling way dirt cheap these days because they cost too much to use. Drivers with too thin faces pretty much simply died off and gave their manufacturers a bad rep because the clubs had no longevity. The added spring proved not worth the cost. Hybrids are conforming and truly make distance easier but have lousy brakes.

The only people who can legitimately get excoted about the idea that TM will make non conforming clubs will be the OEM's, the rule making authorities and TM. To me, I'll wait to see what, if anything, they come out with. I doubt it's going to be worth the noise, but I'm often wrong so I'll wait and see.


Shambles

[ChrisTmag]

Someone mentioned this above and I agree with what he said...

What if this (unconfirmed) product launch happens and not only does it increase product innovation across all product lines (even clubs played by the holier than thou wrxers) but what if it also increases participation/awareness/enjoyment in the game of golf itself. Isn't that a good thing?

Further all you semi-professional wrxers waiting for your next chance at Q-school, this isn't going to transform a hack into a scratch golfer, don't worry so much. Damn.

[PhilWhitUK]

I posted my question on this website because a) it is the one I happen to read most and b) because I think it has some of the most informed contributors. So apologies if I have broken some unwritten rule by referencing another site. Newbie mistake I guess.

Reading the variety of views on this, I m starting to think my view depends on what the intention is. If a non conforming oversize driver is released and clearly marketed as something that is fun, perhaps to help introduce people to the game then I think that is fine. If, on the other hand, it were used as a vehicle to gain momentum to push through changes to rules for "competitive" golf then I would not be happy.

Given the number of TMAG fans on this site I would have thought someone must know if the rumours are true.

[tradpl]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379804133' post='7890575']
Lets call it a tie....
[/quote]

It's just a flesh wound.

[Big Ben]

[quote name='ChrisTmag' timestamp='1379807036' post='7890783']
Someone mentioned this above and I agree with what he said...

What if this (unconfirmed) product launch happens and not only does it increase product innovation across all product lines (even clubs played by the holier than thou wrxers) but what if it also increases participation/awareness/enjoyment in the game of golf itself. Isn't that a good thing?

Further all you semi-professional wrxers waiting for your next chance at Q-school, this isn't going to transform a hack into a scratch golfer, don't worry so much. Damn.
[/quote]Thanks for all the insults, you can make your point without tossing stones at the WRX community. Everyone is entitled to there opinions without fear of being dressed down...BB

[SatelliteGuy]

Hey Wob... Sorry for the condescension earlier... Was trolling for a reason...

Thanks for the input man.


My point, without being a turd is this....

Not sure what someone else has in their bag has to do with me... I play by the rules... Use the clubs I use... Someone wants to make a bunch of crap that makes someone better... It won't be me buying it so I don't really have an opinion... Cause I just don't care what other people do..

Someone wants to cheat.... Cheat.... I win by default without having ever sunk a putt or split a fairway.

[bnha509]

Part of the appeal of the game to me is that I can use the same equipment, play some of the venues, and follow the same rules as the professionals. In my mind there is no other sport in which you can do that. I choose to use a full set of conforming clubs because it makes me fell closer to the game, not because I am trying to mimic the tour pros.

That said, I have no issues with any OEM making or playing partner using non-conforming clubs. I will say I would not attest to a score for someone using any piece of non-conforming equipment. But as it has been stated before. Someone who knowingly and intentionally buys said equipment is probably not posting scores for their index.

Just my opinion.

[Rebel420]

Point is, you can buy non conforming equipment now, and it hasn't ruined the game. The reason that most OEM have stopped producing NC equipment (the equipment that was ok, until the USGA said it can't be used in competition), is that the market seemed too small for that type of product. An OEM willing to try an experiment of producing such (knowing up front that The costs to get a product to market is very high...also knowing the audience that will buy this, are not the ones who will drop $400 on a dozen new drivers and shafts to find "the one"-- but rather this market are the guys with the garage sale club budget), is a huge financial risk...and at May be a break-even situation. But of it gets more into the gem, and getting better, when they want to start competing, or keeping a HC, and move to conforming equipment, what OEM name are they going to remember....

Again, how many here have GPS apps on their smart phone? played a round forgetting to take their Tour Striker out of the bag? Hit a an extra shot or 2 in a practice round? Have used, or own a laser rangefinder with slope? Gave or received distance/club advice? Played or lent a club out of your/someone else's bag?

Since we are talking rules.. Even played a 1 on 1 game of basketball? Played "HORSE"? Played a half court shirts/skins game? Played by schoolyard rules to ANY sport?

Worse case, local tournaments allow the use of NC equipment (unlikely), what advantage does it give the guy who never plays/practices over you? Nothing. And even then if you are so worried, you are free to play by the "local rules" and buy NC equipment yourself.

[SatelliteGuy]

I guess I would wonder just how much help the equipment would be to the target audience of NC Equipment...

You wanna be 30 yards deeper into the rough and even farther right after you slice that NC ball with that NC driver...


Eat it up.... Get it...

No thanks for me.

[wobgon]

[quote name='Directvtechguy' timestamp='1379814831' post='7891237']
Hey Wob... Sorry for the condescension earlier... Was trolling for a reason...

Thanks for the input man.


My point, without being a turd is this....

Not sure what someone else has in their bag has to do with me... I play by the rules... Use the clubs I use... Someone wants to make a bunch of crap that makes someone better... It won't be me buying it so I don't really have an opinion... Cause I just don't care what other people do..

Someone wants to cheat.... Cheat.... I win by default without having ever sunk a putt or split a fairway.
[/quote]
Same here.. ...I guess my point is like you, I really don't care who uses what, I just think people who take short cuts are selling themselves short

[GaHack1]

Collect 250.00 when you pass go. Get a little strange on the side. Who cares it's just cheating. What about integrity? What about personal accountability? I don't really see any difference between this and the old foot wedge. Just my opinion.

[Rustynuts]

Openly breaking the rules by using non conforming clubs would get members kicked out of a few golf clubs down here

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='Rebel420' timestamp='1379815858' post='7891311']
Point is, you can buy non conforming equipment now, and it hasn't ruined the game. The reason that most OEM have stopped producing NC equipment (the equipment that was ok, until the USGA said it can't be used in competition), is that the market seemed too small for that type of product. An OEM willing to try an experiment of producing such (knowing up front that The costs to get a product to market is very high...also knowing the audience that will buy this, are not the ones who will drop $400 on a dozen new drivers and shafts to find "the one"-- but rather this market are the guys with the garage sale club budget), is a huge financial risk...and at May be a break-even situation. But of it gets more into the gem, and getting better, when they want to start competing, or keeping a HC, and move to conforming equipment, what OEM name are they going to remember....

Again, how many here have GPS apps on their smart phone? played a round forgetting to take their Tour Striker out of the bag? Hit a an extra shot or 2 in a practice round? Have used, or own a laser rangefinder with slope? Gave or received distance/club advice? Played or lent a club out of your/someone else's bag?

Since we are talking rules.. Even played a 1 on 1 game of basketball? Played "HORSE"? Played a half court shirts/skins game? Played by schoolyard rules to ANY sport?

Worse case, local tournaments allow the use of NC equipment (unlikely), what advantage does it give the guy who never plays/practices over you? Nothing. And even then if you are so worried, you are free to play by the "local rules" and buy NC equipment yourself.
[/quote]



When I play HORSE I don't call it basketball. Just don't call it golf.

[Xt1ncT]

[quote name='GaHack1' timestamp='1379820158' post='7891603']
Collect 250.00 when you pass go. Get a little strange on the side. Who cares it's just cheating. What about integrity? What about personal accountability? I don't really see any difference between this and the old foot wedge. Just my opinion.
[/quote]thing is, it's not cheating.

The target market if these clubs don't play under the rules of golf. Nor do they care about them.

They want to go out once in a while and hit the ball with the big dog, take the piss out of their buddies and have a beer afterwards.

They play by their own rules- preferred lies through the green all year round, gimmes, no stroke and distance.

Because that's how they enjoy it.

I this said earlier - who are we to tell them how to enjoy themselves? They won't be at your club or mine, they won't be playing in the monthly medal etc.

But, they'll potentially be having more fun.

Lastly, there is the chance of trickle down technology as well. All sounds good to me.

[wobgon]

[quote name='Xt1ncT' timestamp='1379832060' post='7892021']
[quote name='GaHack1' timestamp='1379820158' post='7891603']
Collect 250.00 when you pass go. Get a little strange on the side. Who cares it's just cheating. What about integrity? What about personal accountability? I don't really see any difference between this and the old foot wedge. Just my opinion.
[/quote]thing is, it's not cheating.

The target market if these clubs don't play under the rules of golf. Nor do they care about them.

They want to go out once in a while and hit the ball with the big dog, take the piss out of their buddies and have a beer afterwards.

They play by their own rules- preferred lies through the green all year round, gimmes, no stroke and distance.

Because that's how they enjoy it.

I this said earlier - who are we to tell them how to enjoy themselves? They won't be at your club or mine, they won't be playing in the monthly medal etc.

But, they'll potentially be having more fun.

Lastly, there is the chance of trickle down technology as well. All sounds good to me.
[/quote]
Great info......When did TM do the press release stating all this info about target market etc. I can't seem to find it anywhere online........

[Rebel420]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1379858318' post='7892525']
[quote name='Xt1ncT' timestamp='1379832060' post='7892021']
[quote name='GaHack1' timestamp='1379820158' post='7891603']
Collect 250.00 when you pass go. Get a little strange on the side. Who cares it's just cheating. What about integrity? What about personal accountability? I don't really see any difference between this and the old foot wedge. Just my opinion.
[/quote]thing is, it's not cheating.

The target market if these clubs don't play under the rules of golf. Nor do they care about them.

They want to go out once in a while and hit the ball with the big dog, take the piss out of their buddies and have a beer afterwards.

They play by their own rules- preferred lies through the green all year round, gimmes, no stroke and distance.

Because that's how they enjoy it.

I this said earlier - who are we to tell them how to enjoy themselves? They won't be at your club or mine, they won't be playing in the monthly medal etc.

But, they'll potentially be having more fun.

Lastly, there is the chance of trickle down technology as well. All sounds good to me.
[/quote]
Great info......When did TM do the press release stating all this info about target market etc. I can't seem to find it anywhere online........
[/quote]

http://scoregolf.com/blog/rick-young/2013/january/taking-a-stand

[bobcat]

If someone really feels that it is worth breaking the rules for the sake of a bit more distance, then why not just buy some of those non-conforming (illegal) golf balls? Those certainly exist today and are considerably less expensive than going out and purchasing non-conforming clubs.

Then again, I guess the ultimate cheater(s) might actually want to buy both...

[LittleLeftToRight]

Non conforming clubs will only affect the ego of the user and the bank account of Taylor Made. They will have no real effect on the game unless people at a high level use them. I play with my cousin sometimes and he barely brakes 100. Those 5 extra yards he gets from a non comforming club will make no difference whatsoever to his score.

One thing I might add after reading that link above is that I won't be buying any Taylor Made products. What an egotistical a**-.

[doctorjedi]

There's already tons of non Conforming stuff out there. A friend of mine rented a set that had a 540cc driver in the set. If TMAG made a non conforming sldr with NC stamped on the hosel color me interested.

[nichho]

[quote name='Directvtechguy' timestamp='1379784075' post='7889251']
I'm just curious why ANYONE gives two flyin craps what anyone else does...

Mind your own business.

Try that.
[/quote]

About everything?????? No opinions at all???? Might as well close the site down then.

[Sean2]

I don't know how much these clubs would actually help the average golfer. Regardless of what club you play, you [color=#ff0000][b]STILL[/b][/color] have to put a good swing on it.