What is Your Handicap and What is Hi and low (merged)

[Hstead]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1381235396' post='7969527']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1381197479' post='7968153']
[quote name='Directvtechguy' timestamp='1381197157' post='7968133']
[quote name='Instant Offense' timestamp='1381197006' post='7968119']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1381196318' post='7968045']
I realize each 12/9 is not created equal, but the score noted in the other thread seems highly unlikely. Certainly nothing I have ever seen.
[/quote]
Honestly I think that the guy in the other thread was probably better than a 12. Although I see it happen pretty often, I wouldn't expect him to roll through a tournament and then shoot +1 in the final. Shooting +1 through 13 in a casual round at the club is way different than doing it in a tourney.
[/quote]

This is where I'm at.... Casual round.... Possible...

Tournament round.... Just not going to convince me...
[/quote]

The OP does say he was a 9, but again, not too sure how often a 9 is going to be one over. There is a reason why people aren't better. It is the buildup of expectation and then the subsequent pressure that results in higher scores. So DirecTVguy, I am with you. Playing with buddies, maybe... playing in a tourney, I don't see it.
[/quote]

Even though I know it's been mentioned, I don't think the fact that it was match play has been given enough merit. It's very possible you had some conceded putts in there that could have skewed that one over a bit. There is also the difference in 12 handicaps. Like a poster said ealier, he's an eight but his score variance is very small. He's a very consistant player. But you can also have the guy with wild fluctuations, possibly a long ball hitter that is wild. IF he gets a day where he's keeping it in play, I can certainly see where it is possible.

And in reality, it really doesn't matter, because he had six more holes to play. And if you are a stats oriented person, then he is most likely going to throw up a couple of big numbers coming in. It's a lot more likely he ends his round at seven or eight over than staying where he was after 13.
[/quote]

Someone that actually gets it here. Thanks

[hayzooos]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381185523' post='7967051']
Haydoooos. We are being told that is impossible. You couldn't have possibly been 13 better than your handicap at one point before you finished 18. That is totally against the math and it would take you 52 years before that could even remotely be possible.
[/quote]

Yup, that's exactly why I posted it because I saw what was happening in the other thread and was thinking "I bet my story can beat that". Of course, it wasn't in a club championship, but the guys I played with all took it seriously and we played by the rules. No fluffing lies, winter rules, gimmies, lateral for lost ball / OB, etc, always by the book. So casual round, not tournament, but at least by the rules. I know, it's not the same and I'm not trying to say it is.

Anyway, with regards to what PeteThreePutt was saying regarding there being different handicaps at the same number, he's 100% right. We all know the handicap is the best 10 of the last 20 rounds. Well, then Anticap if you will is the worst 10 of the last 20. Variance is the different between those. Low variance is someone who always shoots about the same, and they have a certain handicap. High variance is someone who could go +/- 7 shots either way any given day. It's a fact.

Like he said, if you get someone who took a lot of penalty strokes like I did (among other things), and one day they don't have any...yeah, you can light it up. For example, I play to a 6 right now but I average 3.5 penalty strokes per round. So without them I'm somewhere around a 2.5-3? So would a round of even par be in the realm? You bet, and way more likely if I keep the ball in play. But then you'd have someone complain that "a '6' shot even today and I got smoked...sandbagger?". No, you got trounced by a 6 who used to be a 1-2, doesn't have the time to keep his game sharp but still knows WTF he's doing on a golf course with a club in his hand.

[arnold palmtree]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381235274' post='7969519']
[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381199912' post='7968385']
[quote name='Directvtechguy' timestamp='1381197157' post='7968133']
[quote name='Instant Offense' timestamp='1381197006' post='7968119']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1381196318' post='7968045']
I realize each 12/9 is not created equal, but the score noted in the other thread seems highly unlikely. Certainly nothing I have ever seen.
[/quote]
Honestly I think that the guy in the other thread was probably better than a 12. Although I see it happen pretty often, I wouldn't expect him to roll through a tournament and then shoot +1 in the final. Shooting +1 through 13 in a casual round at the club is way different than doing it in a tourney.
[/quote]

This is where I'm at.... Casual round.... Possible...

Tournament round.... Just not going to convince me...
[/quote]

It's just nonsensical for anyone to argue otherwise. There is a 99.998% chance the score was not legitimate.

To place your faith in the 0.002% is just ludicrous.
[/quote]

It is nonsensical to ignore the fact that the guy was a 9 not that long ago, and he only played 13 holes. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way.
[/quote]

I'm a reasonable man. If you can show the odds for 13 holes I will reevaluate my position.

[vtnerf]

[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381241132' post='7969881']
[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381235274' post='7969519']
[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381199912' post='7968385']
[quote name='Directvtechguy' timestamp='1381197157' post='7968133']
[quote name='Instant Offense' timestamp='1381197006' post='7968119']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1381196318' post='7968045']
I realize each 12/9 is not created equal, but the score noted in the other thread seems highly unlikely. Certainly nothing I have ever seen.
[/quote]
Honestly I think that the guy in the other thread was probably better than a 12. Although I see it happen pretty often, I wouldn't expect him to roll through a tournament and then shoot +1 in the final. Shooting +1 through 13 in a casual round at the club is way different than doing it in a tourney.
[/quote]

This is where I'm at.... Casual round.... Possible...

Tournament round.... Just not going to convince me...
[/quote]

It's just nonsensical for anyone to argue otherwise. There is a 99.998% chance the score was not legitimate.

To place your faith in the 0.002% is just ludicrous.
[/quote]

It is nonsensical to ignore the fact that the guy was a 9 not that long ago, and he only played 13 holes. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way.
[/quote]

I'm a reasonable man. If you can show the odds for 13 holes I will reevaluate my position.
[/quote]

A. You are taking the original post for what is being stated...Maybe the guy was +1 gross. Maybe he was there with some generous gimmies. Maybe he considered him as having a bogey when he was 20'+ away and the OP was out of the hole. It doesn't state that he holed everything out. It also says, if you read it carefully, there he only got 5 strokes in the first 13. Leaving 2 of the hardest 7 holes in the last 5. These could be the #2 & #4 handicapped holes. Maybe the front is much easier. Maybe the OP was playing so bad, the 12 only had to knock it down the fairway, hit it towards the green, and won the holes easily because the OP was out of the hole completely. It's easy to win with "par" getting a stroke when the one giving has a bunker shot for bogey. There are a lot of conclusions being jumped to, trying to be backed up with hard math. Not all of the information is given...

B. The odds for having such a score thru 13 is much better than extrapolating them through 18. IF the guy is true 12, there is a reason why...it's called blow up holes. Given that 2 of the hardest 7 were left to be played, he could be looking at 2 doubles easily on them. If they get in his head, he could be looking at +8 on the final 5 holes easily. Would you care to give the odds for a 12 handicap shooting +8 or even +10 on 5 holes? I bet they are pretty good. Pair that with the +1, and he's a heck of a lot closer to his handicap. He could start thinking that he has the round of his life going, and completely crumble. The front nine could be completely open, and the back nine tight. Again, not enough information has been given, and HE DID NOT FINISH!

(It seems that only low cappers come on here to complain about a career round from someone in the 8-15 range. The OP did not get hustled. If the other guy is a 12, and has been playing for some time, he understands the game. It is possible he put 13 holes together, against someone not playing so well. I play in a member guest every summer, and they set up the course a little easier than some Saturdays...tees up, pins not tucked or edged. I've seen 17's shoot even for 9 holes. I've seen 4's shoot 32. But, on the other 9, the score "rights" itself. If your handicap was a determination of was you would shoot that day, there wouldn't be any reason to play at all, just sit and drink for 4 hours. There's a reason why the course is there and the round played.)

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Whatever the odds of a particularly low nett 18-hole score, as you reduce the number of holes those odds get shorter very quickly. It's the nature of highly unlikely events that are strung together. In golf, each hole is very close to independent of the results of other holes. So shooting, let's say, 10 strokes under your handicap for 18 holes is actually a combination of 18 events in a row happening a way that results in 10-under.

Just like flipping a coin. If someone says they just flipped 18 heads in a row then either their coin in rigged or they just experienced a once in a lifetime event. Flipping 13 heads in a row is still very, very unlikely but it is 32 times more likely than getting 18 in a row.

I suspect the OP is describing a situation where someone got "13 heads in a row" except two or three of those "heads" were conceded without necessarily flipping the coin. So it starts looking a lot more like "10 heads in a row" which is hundreds of times more likely than 18 in a row.

The combination of shortening the number of "trials" from 18 to 13 and possibly getting the benefit of several concessions just throws the probability charts right out the window. Things that you'd think are "one in a million" start looking like "one in a hundred" which is actually not unlikely at all. Somebody, somewhere is shooting way under the handicap for 13 holes in a friendly match as we speak.

[Willie Malay]

~5. 2 under....3 times.

[Petethreeput]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381235500' post='7969529']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1381235396' post='7969527']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1381197479' post='7968153']
[quote name='Directvtechguy' timestamp='1381197157' post='7968133']
[quote name='Instant Offense' timestamp='1381197006' post='7968119']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1381196318' post='7968045']
I realize each 12/9 is not created equal, but the score noted in the other thread seems highly unlikely. Certainly nothing I have ever seen.
[/quote]
Honestly I think that the guy in the other thread was probably better than a 12. Although I see it happen pretty often, I wouldn't expect him to roll through a tournament and then shoot +1 in the final. Shooting +1 through 13 in a casual round at the club is way different than doing it in a tourney.
[/quote]

This is where I'm at.... Casual round.... Possible...

Tournament round.... Just not going to convince me...
[/quote]

The OP does say he was a 9, but again, not too sure how often a 9 is going to be one over. There is a reason why people aren't better. It is the buildup of expectation and then the subsequent pressure that results in higher scores. So DirecTVguy, I am with you. Playing with buddies, maybe... playing in a tourney, I don't see it.
[/quote]

Even though I know it's been mentioned, I don't think the fact that it was match play has been given enough merit. It's very possible you had some conceded putts in there that could have skewed that one over a bit. There is also the difference in 12 handicaps. Like a poster said ealier, he's an eight but his score variance is very small. He's a very consistant player. But you can also have the guy with wild fluctuations, possibly a long ball hitter that is wild. IF he gets a day where he's keeping it in play, I can certainly see where it is possible.

And in reality, it really doesn't matter, because he had six more holes to play. And if you are a stats oriented person, then he is most likely going to throw up a couple of big numbers coming in. It's a lot more likely he ends his round at seven or eight over than staying where he was after 13.
[/quote]

Someone that actually gets it here. Thanks
[/quote]

I do understand this, and it definitely makes the score more probable. No doubt about it. But, and I will re-submit my original point, this is the Championship. I have a hard time believing a 9/12 would be completely comfortable in this setting. I think we can all concede the majority of amateur golfers do not embrace the nerves, but rather suffer from them. Heck, I am a 2-4 and I get nervous. In fact, I am embarrassed at how I feel over a 3' breaker. I have seen people come in low in tournament settings, and I know they have legit handicaps. I do think, regardless of format, the general population does wilt with the pressure.

This is why I say, in a friendly game of golf sure, it can happen, but the odds of it happening in this setting are much less likely. 13 holes, 18 holes, it matters statistically for sure, but it still seems a little too low.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Match-play nerves are a very distant cousin to stroke-play nerves. Especially if the guy went like four up after five holes or some such. I'm as squirrely under pressure as any golfer that's ever lived but give me a big lead in a match where I can pick up when I'm out of a hole and there's just no perception of pressure. Now maybe if I go from four-up to one-up in a bang-bang-bang stretch the nerves will kick back in. But playing match play in a laugher of a win is not like the final round of a 72-hole stroke play championship.

[arnold palmtree]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1381242895' post='7970023']
Whatever the odds of a particularly low nett 18-hole score, as you reduce the number of holes those odds get shorter very quickly. It's the nature of highly unlikely events that are strung together. In golf, each hole is very close to independent of the results of other holes. So shooting, let's say, 10 strokes under your handicap for 18 holes is actually a combination of 18 events in a row happening a way that results in 10-under.

Just like flipping a coin. If someone says they just flipped 18 heads in a row then either their coin in rigged or they just experienced a once in a lifetime event. Flipping 13 heads in a row is still very, very unlikely but it is 32 times more likely than getting 18 in a row.

I suspect the OP is describing a situation where someone got "13 heads in a row" except two or three of those "heads" were conceded without necessarily flipping the coin. So it starts looking a lot more like "10 heads in a row" which is hundreds of times more likely than 18 in a row.

The combination of shortening the number of "trials" from 18 to 13 and possibly getting the benefit of several concessions just throws the probability charts right out the window. Things that you'd think are "one in a million" start looking like "one in a hundred" which is actually not unlikely at all. Somebody, somewhere is shooting way under the handicap for 13 holes in a friendly match as we speak.
[/quote]

While true, we would need to see the actual probabilities to see if 13 holes made it more realistic. If the odds were still 33,000:1 you've only increased the probability of it being a legitimate score by .02%.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='Eye2+' timestamp='1381245834' post='7970327']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1381242895' post='7970023']
Whatever the odds of a particularly low nett 18-hole score, as you reduce the number of holes those odds get shorter very quickly. It's the nature of highly unlikely events that are strung together. In golf, each hole is very close to independent of the results of other holes. So shooting, let's say, 10 strokes under your handicap for 18 holes is actually a combination of 18 events in a row happening a way that results in 10-under.

Just like flipping a coin. If someone says they just flipped 18 heads in a row then either their coin in rigged or they just experienced a once in a lifetime event. Flipping 13 heads in a row is still very, very unlikely but it is 32 times more likely than getting 18 in a row.

I suspect the OP is describing a situation where someone got "13 heads in a row" except two or three of those "heads" were conceded without necessarily flipping the coin. So it starts looking a lot more like "10 heads in a row" which is hundreds of times more likely than 18 in a row.

The combination of shortening the number of "trials" from 18 to 13 and possibly getting the benefit of several concessions just throws the probability charts right out the window. Things that you'd think are "one in a million" start looking like "one in a hundred" which is actually not unlikely at all. Somebody, somewhere is shooting way under the handicap for 13 holes in a friendly match as we speak.
[/quote]

While true, we would need to see the actual probabilities to see if 13 holes made it more realistic. If the odds were still [b]33,000:1 [/b]you've only increased the probability of it being a legitimate score by .02%.
[/quote]

Eye, I think you just answered the question when you listed those 33,000-1 odds. Even if the second number is the .02, there is still that one time where the oddity is going to happen. You just never know where or when. If he does it again, then obviously it really gets called into question. But as long as there is that small, slim chance of something happening, it will at some point.

As to the overall question. There is a good chance the guy is sandy. But I think there just has to be more than just instance before the accusations can be made. The benefit of the doubt has to be given.

[Kaysquare]

I'm a woman & play to a 12 handicap....lowest score has been a 75.

[sblack5]

+5.6

lowest is 63 on 73.1/130 course

biggest move in a year was between 4 and +2

[dartboss04]

[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1381287992' post='7973803']
+5.6

lowest is 63 on 73.1/130 course

biggest move in a year was between 4 and +2
[/quote]

That's an impressive jump in a year. Was it a certain aspect of your game that just started to click or overall?

[BigOgolfer]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381155046' post='7964427']
What is your handicap and what is your career low round? Also, how many strokes has your handicap varied over the course of a year from time to time? Example, if you are a 12 have you ever been a 9 or a 15?

What is your best through 9 holes?

There seems to be a debate on whether or not a 12 handicap could have been possibly +1 through 13 holes in a club tournament. Some guys do not think it is possible. I happen to believe it is possible.

Interested to see the results. Thanks
[/quote]

I know for a fact it's not impossible because I was approximately a 12 when I shot 69 on par 70 this summer. I wasn't keeping official at the time but I've been keeping track for a couple of years and I'm saying 12 pretty conservatively. Probably more like 13-14. Now I'm an official 10.

Just fyi, before this I had only broken 80 three times in my life, or was it two? It wasnt in a tournament but it was a legit 69. I haven't heard but from the church on my miracle application but I expect a fully favorable ruling any day now.

[fore_life]

Currently at a +1, this time last year I was scratch, then climbed all the way up to just under a 4 before I started to get my game back. Lowest round was a bogey free 65 on a par 72, a couple months ago.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='fore_life' timestamp='1381296383' post='7974265']
Currently at a +1, this time last year I was scratch, then climbed all the way up to just under a 4 before I started to get my game back. Lowest round was a bogey free 65 on a par 72, a couple months ago.
[/quote]Nice! About time! When we played together, I thought:" if this clank thinks I'm giving him shots he's nuts..." Meaning with your swing and sweet outfits, no one's buying the 4 handicap! LOL!

Hope to play with you again this winter buddy!

[isaacbm]

Currently a +1. Lowest ever is 60... I guess that makes me a sandbagger??

[Hstead]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1381296926' post='7974283']
Currently a +1. Lowest ever is 60... I guess that makes me a sandbagger??
[/quote]

Hell yes it does. You do realize that you will never shoot another 60 in your lifetime according to Eye2+ because doing it twice is not really possible according to the math.

Now isaac, you need to go ahead and let Eye2+ know how many times you have shot 60, 61, and 62 though. You must be a cat, cause you seem to have had 9 lives.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381299717' post='7974341']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1381296926' post='7974283']
Currently a +1. Lowest ever is 60... I guess that makes me a sandbagger??
[/quote]

Hell yes it does. You do realize that you will never shoot another 60 in your lifetime according to Eye2+ because doing it twice is not really possible according to the math.

Now isaac, you need to go ahead and let Eye2+ know how many times you have shot 60, 61, and 62 though. You must be a cat, cause you seem to have had 9 lives.
[/quote]
The handicap system is a strange thing. I keep pretty accurate records but as an ex pro, I have a lot of experience to draw on and sometimes things can just fall into place like the good old days. Also, when I start going low, I don't really feel the nerves that someone that has never done that might feel.

As a guy with a full time business to run, my scoring range can be nearly 20 shots! I remember when it used to be closer to 6 or 7.

My handicap hasn't been under +3.5 in 3 years but I've shot 5 under my handicap 12 times in the last 3 years.

I don't know who's coming up with these odds, but I guess I must be the exception.

[sirparalot]

Best round ever shot was 74. My hdcp at the time was a 12. Closest I have been since is 77 and cap is now 11.

[TripleSingle]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1381300604' post='7974357']
[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381299717' post='7974341']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1381296926' post='7974283']
Currently a +1. Lowest ever is 60... I guess that makes me a sandbagger??
[/quote]

Hell yes it does. You do realize that you will never shoot another 60 in your lifetime according to Eye2+ because doing it twice is not really possible according to the math.

Now isaac, you need to go ahead and let Eye2+ know how many times you have shot 60, 61, and 62 though. You must be a cat, cause you seem to have had 9 lives.
[/quote]
The handicap system is a strange thing. I keep pretty accurate records but as an ex pro, I have a lot of experience to draw on and sometimes things can just fall into place like the good old days. Also, when I start going low, I don't really feel the nerves that someone that has never done that might feel.

As a guy with a full time business to run, my scoring range can be nearly 20 shots! I remember when it used to be closer to 6 or 7.

My handicap hasn't been under +3.5 in 3 years but I've shot 5 under my handicap 12 times in the last 3 years.

I don't know who's coming up with these odds, but I guess I must be the exception.
[/quote]

At the end of the day, our scores will be a bell curve in relation to our handicap. The players who are consistent will probably have a narrower and more vertical bell curve. Odds only represent the population as a whole, but not necessarily the individual. I've never had a hole-in-one and was never even closer than a foot in the 20 years I've played. On the other hand, my friend's uncle has 57 aces in 28 years. So yeah I guess the odds do make sense when you look at the big picture, but doesn't mean each individual will experience the same odds in their lifetime.

[ShooterMcShanks]

The main point a lot of people seem to be missing has only been said a couple of times in this thread, and I think its most likely been overlooked.

The 'sandbagger' in question has a handicap under the R&A rules, not the USGA system.

Under the R&A system, a player must enter a minimum of 3 scoring cards in order to maintain his handicap for the year, otherwise it is deemed to lapse and he can then no longer play in tournament golf until he re-enters 3 cards to regain his handicap. Ask me how I know.

As has been stated, he used to play to 9. Soooo, even if he were to go out and play multiple medal rounds a year, and NR every single one of them, he would be going up 0.1 everytime. Doing that would take up to 39 rounds of medal competition (based on 8.5->12.4). What hasnt been stated was how long ago he played to 9. Regardless of that fact, it would most likely take a very long time to 'sandbag' his handicap up to such a level. If he were to play in club championships while going through his 'handicap transition' it would most certainly have been picked up by his local handicap secretary.

The reality of what happened to the poor loser in question is that he got beat by the better player on the day, regardless of the number of shots given. Afterall - if you get shots, you use them no?

To keep my reply inline with the orginal thread topic:

My handicap - I dont have one officially. Last one I had was 14.5 (R&A) 5 or 6 years ago. Life got in the way of golf, and I really couldn't be bothered going out and playing at a very cliquey club every week when I could shoot lights out, or 100+ on any given day. I play to around 9 or 10 now, and my lowest ever round is 79 on a par 72, just a couple months ago..

My scoring average for the last 2/3months is anywhere from 79-83. Annoyingly I was on for a 78 this past sunday had the yips not caught up with me on the 18th teebox. Taking 7 on a par 4 that really wasnt particularly difficult nipped a bit.

My best through 9 holes is +2.

Do I believe a 12 capper could shoot +1 through 13 holes in a matchplay competition? Yes, absolutely.

[deadsolid...shank]

Aren't handicaps there computed on just tournament play? If that is the case then becomes even less questionable that his good round was in a tournament.

[dirthead]

I've had 2 golfing lives. I started playing at about the age of 12, played in HS and college. In HS, my first tournament, I shot a 105. My second year, my best was a 92. By senior year, I was in the 70's consistently. Played in college and got to a +2 handicap. Best round was 66 on par 72, which I shot several times. Best 9 holes was -6. I could get really low early in a round, but couldn't maintain it through 18 holes. I remember being -7 through 11 holes at least twice and blowing up.

After college I got burned out and quit for about 15 years. Started playing and practicing again early last year and am now down to a 1.9. I've shot 69 a couple of times lately, but on a much more difficult course than the 66's in college. I guess now I'm just much more analytical during the round, instead of being a free wheeling kid, and that costs me shots at time. (Saves some shots too). I'm a much more consistent player now, but I just don't put myself into a position to shoot a really low round. I don't have a really high round like I used to either, so I guess it's not such a bad thing.

My handicap has varied from a 4.0 to a 1.9 this year. It's fluctuated up and down several times, but not out of that range. I play with a 12 that can shoot from a 73 to a 95 on any given day. His big scores are usually on only 3 or 4 holes, so in match play (playing handicapped), he is really hard to beat.

[helper_monkey]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381155046' post='7964427']
What is your handicap and what is your career low round? Also, how many strokes has your handicap varied over the course of a year from time to time? Example, if you are a 12 have you ever been a 9 or a 15?

What is your best through 9 holes?

There seems to be a debate on whether or not a 12 handicap could have been possibly +1 through 13 holes in a club tournament. Some guys do not think it is possible. I happen to believe it is possible.

Interested to see the results. Thanks
[/quote]

My current index is 7.9. In the last year I have ranged from 5.9 to 10.7. My lowest 18 holes is a 74 this year when I was trending towards the lower end of my index and I was actually -3 through 13 and completely gagged towards the end (started thinking about shooting under par for the first time). I have shot 35 for 9 holes several times, but never managed to hold it together for 18 holes.

[Hstead]

People just keep coming with similar stories, being -7 through 11 more than once, -3 through 13 etc etc. If you listen to Ty Webb, it can't happen twice in your lifetime, or Eye2+, that you are never going to do it again. The odds just do not apply in that fashion. I have 3 hole-in-ones and all were over 200 yards, which is supposed to be 150,000 to 1. I promise I have not played 450,000 par 3's and I also believe I will have more hole-in-ones in my life time, mostly likely more than a couple. My dad has never had one and played for 30 years. My other buddy has 9 and he hasn't played over a million par 3's. All golfers are not created equal. How many 10-15 handicaps now have chimed in that indeed they have shot near par before and well more than that have had it +1 or better through 13 more than once. But if you listen to Ty and Eye2+, you are all cheaters.

[dirthead]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1381332098' post='7975655']
People just keep coming with similar stories, being -7 through 11 more than once, -3 through 13 etc etc. If you listen to Ty Webb, it can't happen twice in your lifetime, or Eye2+, that you are never going to do it again. The odds just do not apply in that fashion. I have 3 hole-in-ones and all were over 200 yards, which is supposed to be 150,000 to 1. I promise I have not played 450,000 par 3's and I also believe I will have more hole-in-ones in my life time, mostly likely more than a couple. My dad has never had one and played for 30 years. My other buddy has 9 and he hasn't played over a million par 3's. All golfers are not created equal. How many 10-15 handicaps now have chimed in that indeed they have shot near par before and well more than that have had it +1 or better through 13 more than once. But if you listen to Ty and Eye2+, you are all cheaters.
[/quote]

IMHO, the golf course plays a big part in it as well, and don't think the course rating or slope really does it's part in "equaling" courses as far as handicap is concerned. For instance, the course I grew up playing and played on a lot in college, was a par 72 with 5 reachable par 5's. From the tips, it played about 6300 yards. The course rating is 69.1. The greens were the most perfect bent grass greens you can imagine. Just the right firmness and just the right speed, and perfectly smooth all the time. There were no real hazards other than OB on a few holes. Birdies could come by the bucket full on that course pretty easily. The course I play on now is a par 71 that plays about 6800 yds, with a course rating of 70.5. It has 3 par 5's, only 1 of which is reachable. There are bunkers and hazards everywhere. The greens are absolutely horrible 99% of the time. They are bumpy and slow. Making a putt is more luck than skill, especially if it is over 10'. The ball will literally change direction 3 or 4 times from hitting holes. The real difference in these two courses is probably about 6-8 shots, but there is only a 1.4 difference in rating. I feel like if I played my old course now, I could shoot pretty low. If I played my current course back then, I would shoot a ton, regardless of what my handicap is, or was at the time.

[ShooterMcShanks]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1381328653' post='7975279']
Aren't handicaps there computed on just tournament play? If that is the case then becomes even less questionable that his good round was in a tournament.
[/quote]

Correct, and the effective slope, we call it CSS (competition scratch score) is based on the day/conditions/how everyone else plays. This wouldn't apply in a club championship though (well, I don't think it would).

As such, there is no adjusting your handicap from one course to another on a fixed number on a given day. Makes it even harder to BS your handicap, and if it was his home course (I would assume it was as you couldn't really play a CC as a visitor), it'd be nigh on impossible.

[tjumper78]

12.0 and my lowest score was 12+ twice.
i guess the system works for my game.

[sblack5]

[quote name='dartboss04' timestamp='1381289218' post='7973887']
[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1381287992' post='7973803']
+5.6

lowest is 63 on 73.1/130 course,

biggest move in a year was between 4 and +2
[/quote]

That's an impressive jump in a year. Was it a certain aspect of your game that just started to click or overall?
[/quote]

tightened my tee shot and got much better speed control on the greens.