Issacbm swing advice

[isaacbm]

One of my problems in the few years has been lower back pain. Of late, I've been doing yoga and some of my old martial arts breathing forms and my pain seems to be more under control. I've definately gotten some of my speed back and I'm happy about that.

 

Does anyone have opinions on how to prevent the "backing away" from the ball move that I do through impact? I don't have video from years ago so I don't know to what extent I've always done it. I do know that it seems like it would contribute to back pain.

 

I have a feeling that the reason I do it is because I hold my release to0 long. Doing this delofts the club which is fine with irons but I subconsciously move back to add loft with the driver.

 

In this vid, I'm swinging about 112 and the ball is launched 11ish degrees. I think that's great but as i said, if I move back through impact and keep the weight on my right toe so much, it leads to back pain.

 

Thoughts??

 

[media=]

[/media]

[MonteScheinblum]

Not enough tilt at address, not enough at the top and not near enough in transition.

You being a good player, your body recognizes this and creates it late to shallow out AoA.

[lv_2_hack]

Spine too vertical at address and at the top of the backswing. Need to preset more secondary tilt.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384368972' post='8143872']
Spine too vertical at address and at the top of the backswing. Need to preset more secondary tilt.
[/quote]

Plagiarist. :-)

[JPGolf FL]

What they said ^^^. Is your back pain on one side or the other?

[lv_2_hack]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384369384' post='8143908']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384368972' post='8143872']
Spine too vertical at address and at the top of the backswing. Need to preset more secondary tilt.
[/quote]

Plagiarist. :-)
[/quote]

Haha. I originally posted saying he needed to cover the ball but after seeing your post I edited it!

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384370234' post='8144004']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384369384' post='8143908']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384368972' post='8143872']
Spine too vertical at address and at the top of the backswing. Need to preset more secondary tilt.
[/quote]

Plagiarist. :-)
[/quote]

Haha. I originally posted saying he needed to cover the ball but after seeing your post I edited it!
[/quote]

LMAO

[isaacbm]

So the old "K" look is what you guys are saying...

Ok, that sounds good.

Next question, Since I've started moving more left through impact (compared to a couple of weeks ago) I feel like there's less pressure on my right toe (I have pain there too sometimes) but now I'm feeling more strain in my left knee.

Other then get a new body, what can I do to lessen strain on left knee through impact/follow through.

I don't have a video from 2 weeks ago, but I was moving back and down a lot more then the above posted video. If you can imagine, It feels like my center is moving a foot towards the target through impact. Feels!! I realize it isn't but you should have seen what it was like before.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384368953' post='8143868']
Not enough tilt at address, not enough at the top and not near enough in transition.

You being a good player, your body recognizes this and creates it late to shallow out AoA.
[/quote]So basically, the position I get into at impact is close to where I should be at setup. I move there subconsciously to correct for lack of tilt at address?

[isaacbm]

thanks in advance, I'll try this tomorrow at the range and post a couple of videos to see if i'm on track.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1384369470' post='8143922']
What they said ^^^. Is your back pain on one side or the other?
[/quote]
Can be either. Had a bad hamstring stain in my left leg that led to a crippling sciatic attack last year that kept me in bed for a week. Could literally barely move without blacking out. The upside was I got to try some fun drugs for it!

Sometime my psoas muscle acts up a lot on either side and that's what determines which side of my lower back has pain.

[lv_2_hack]

Knee pain in golf comes from improper joint alignment, mainly knee going too far past ankle from FO view. Yours gets just a bit outside ankle which isn't as bad as some but it can be what's causing your pain.

If you can get your head a bit more stationary, your left knee won't drive quite so much and could help eliminate pain.

[MonteScheinblum]

As soon as the secondary gets straightened out, the right shoulder working up the target line.

[lui_boy]

I have lower back issues as well. What helped me was doing planks in different variations and hamstring stretches. If you can find a little time to do this every day, you'll feel a lot better. It's just hard getting into the habit.

Plank Variations:
http://www.phillymag.com/be-well-philly/2013/03/12/25-plank-variations-absolutely/

Stretches:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stretching/SM00043

[isaacbm]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381068' post='8144926']
As soon as the secondary gets straightened out, the right shoulder working up the target line.
[/quote]Sorry, what?

[isaacbm]

[quote name='lui_boy' timestamp='1384381286' post='8144950']
I have lower back issues as well. What helped me was doing planks in different variations and hamstring stretches. If you can find a little time to do this every day, you'll feel a lot better. It's just hard getting into the habit.

Plank Variations:
[url="http://www.phillymag.com/be-well-philly/2013/03/12/25-plank-variations-absolutely/"]http://www.phillymag...ons-absolutely/[/url]

Stretches:
[url="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stretching/SM00043"]http://www.mayoclini...etching/SM00043[/url]
[/quote]thanks a lot!

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1384381692' post='8144996']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381068' post='8144926']
As soon as the secondary gets straightened out, the right shoulder working up the target line.
[/quote]Sorry, what?
[/quote]

As soon as your tilt issue gets straightened out, your right shoulder will work more toward target and less down to right hip.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381810' post='8145008']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1384381692' post='8144996']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381068' post='8144926']
As soon as the secondary gets straightened out, the right shoulder working up the target line.
[/quote]Sorry, what?
[/quote]

As soon as your tilt issue gets straightened out, your right shoulder will work more toward target and less down to right hip.
[/quote]Which will result in what? Sorry if I'm thick here... Just not sure what you're trying to get me to understand.

Are you saying that my shoulder plane is too up and down and not enough around because of the way I "dip" through impact?

In other words, it would be better for my shoulders to turn horizontally but they won't be able to until I tilt more at address?

Is too much vertical shoulder turn leading to back pain?

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1384379181' post='8144772']
[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1384369470' post='8143922']
What they said ^^^. Is your back pain on one side or the other?
[/quote]
Can be either. Had a bad hamstring stain in my left leg that led to a crippling sciatic attack last year that kept me in bed for a week. Could literally barely move without blacking out. The upside was I got to try some fun drugs for it!

Sometime my psoas muscle acts up a lot on either side and that's what determines which side of my lower back has pain.
[/quote]
I bought a yoga vid called "psoas release party" that has been great. My right psoas was really jacked up and now I actually look forward to doing the poses. The psoas is huge in golf IMO. Had left knee issues in the past too. The key for me was to keep at least 5% flex in the knee all the way to the finish, DONT let it lock. I am really flexible and I think my knee actually hyperextends when it locks straight.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1384385482' post='8145270']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381810' post='8145008']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1384381692' post='8144996']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381068' post='8144926']
As soon as the secondary gets straightened out, the right shoulder working up the target line.
[/quote]Sorry, what?
[/quote]

As soon as your tilt issue gets straightened out, your right shoulder will work more toward target and less down to right hip.
[/quote]Which will result in what? Sorry if I'm thick here... Just not sure what you're trying to get me to understand.

Are you saying that my shoulder plane is too up and down and not enough around because of the way I "dip" through impact?

In other words, it would be better for my shoulders to turn horizontally but they won't be able to until I tilt more at address?

Is too much vertical shoulder turn leading to back pain?
[/quote]

Downswing shoulder turn being forced to be too vertical or you'd be even steeper and over the top because you have no tilt at setup, at the top or in transition. That's what's causing the "backout."

[isaacbm]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384389653' post='8145668']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1384385482' post='8145270']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381810' post='8145008']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1384381692' post='8144996']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1384381068' post='8144926']
As soon as the secondary gets straightened out, the right shoulder working up the target line.
[/quote]Sorry, what?
[/quote]

As soon as your tilt issue gets straightened out, your right shoulder will work more toward target and less down to right hip.
[/quote]Which will result in what? Sorry if I'm thick here... Just not sure what you're trying to get me to understand.

Are you saying that my shoulder plane is too up and down and not enough around because of the way I "dip" through impact?

In other words, it would be better for my shoulders to turn horizontally but they won't be able to until I tilt more at address?

Is too much vertical shoulder turn leading to back pain?
[/quote]

Downswing shoulder turn being forced to be too vertical or you'd be even steeper and over the top because you have no tilt at setup, at the top or in transition. That's what's causing the "backout."
[/quote]k thanks. I have to ponder for a bit...

[HappyGolf]

You have no tilt and as a result your body is busy trying to create some on the downswing with a lot of lower body slide.

If your right shoulder turns on plane your momentum will take you thru to a finish (less strain on the back) better than if your right shoulder works too much down because then your back muscles have to work so hard to straighten you up to a finish.

Whichever way you want to dissect/ponder it, more tilt will help.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1384393773' post='8146004']
You have no tilt and as a result your body is busy trying to create some on the downswing with a lot of lower body slide.

If your right shoulder turns on plane your momentum will take you thru to a finish (less strain on the back) better than if your right shoulder works too much down because then your back muscles have to work so hard to straighten you up to a finish.

Whichever way you want to dissect/ponder it, more tilt will help.
[/quote]good explanation! Thanks.

I ponder everything before attempting something new. Tools years to groove these mistakes, I'm attached to them! Lol!

[ALIF]

I think Monte was talking about your right shoulder crashing into your right hip on the downswing. If your right shoulder works more down and out towards the ball, you won't be as steep. This will help you not need to add so much tilt late in your swing. Monte has a really good explanation of this on his blog with before and after pics of his swing. He goes quite a bit in depth on it. It's very helpful because it is a common problem that better players have.

[HappyGolf]

You have a nice swing, I've watched it many times :good:

 

Talking just about your driver set up (not interested in your irons), your stance seems quite narrow, I'm guessing that's as a result of wanting/needing to create some hips slide in the downswing. I think you can widen your stance a touch if you get your tilt correct as you won't need to be doing quite so much lower body work. That will give you a better shaft plane, more power and more balance, as well as saving your back and your knee.

 

Here's a pic of a guy who's set up wasn't too bad on the left, he has tilt, but on the right he has a little more tilt, the left hip slightly bumped targetwards and the hands more forwards.... that (to me) is a perfect driver set up on the right, he LOOKS like he's going to smash it :)

 

I've put you in on the right....

 

 

hope that helps :good:

[Petethreeput]

This has nothing to do with the shoulder etc., just a personal idea. And it could be camera angle, but the stance looks closed a little.

After my second back surgery I found my closed stance would cause my back to hurt because I couldn't open my hips on the follow through. The back swing was much more comfortable, but not the follow through. I found I was hitting my driver very thin as I found myself falling out/ standing up in response to the torque beyond comfort levels. Without a doctor diagnosing this, I just made that correlation as I had always used a closed stance without pain until then.

For the last 11 years I have been golfing fairly pain free using an open stance while trying to get my hips/ shoulders on line. I took the idea from Freddy.

[Thrillhouse]

You should watch thrillhouse more and try to emulate his majestic move.

[isaacbm]

Thanks everyone! Especially thrillhouse. His majesticnessism knows no bounds! Barf!

Agree that I sometimes get too closed at address as I find it's easier to make the back swing. Will try tomorrow

Also agree that the stance is too narrow. Though part of that is that in 5'10" with 29 inch legs. I get restricted if I get too narrow but I will experiment.

[Thrillhouse]

What did you guys think of the camera work on that swing vid? It looks like Isaac hired a seasoned professional for that job!

[lv_2_hack]

Thrill either you're extremely tall, Isaac is extremely short, or you held the camera over your head!!! ;-)