gamesmanship in match play

[Mitchell]

I know that the word gamesmanship tends to have a bit of a negative connotation here, but was curious as to the following- Does anyone have examples of things they do to rattle their opponent that do not violate normal standards of sportsmanship?

As an example, early in a match I will concede putts that are borderline gimme range if left short and make opponent putt out ones similar distance that go past hole. The thought process is that later in match when gimme less likely, if opponent needs to two-putt, he may leave initial putt short and not get putt to hole, eliminating some possibility of a make.

[jewofgolf]

Don't show any emotion after hitting a good shot. Even if this is normally practiced in stroke play, I mean to the extent that you don't even say thanks when they say nice shot. Also don't speak to the opponent about anything other than the match. Stay focused and it normally will make a person feel uncomfortable (think you are being a *****).

In match play I prefer to just hole everything out and only give putts under a foot. Just maybe giving a few short downhill putts in the beginning so that later they feel more nerves over a tricky downhiller, but basically I don't think the gimme game is that important. I would rather them miss a 3 footer early and take an early lead.

[Vindog]

Watch them like a hawk.
Call them out on a rules violation.
Watch them squirm for the rest of the round
Wait for them to start thread on GolfWRX
Enjoy meltdown

[Mitchell]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1386102671' post='8243378']
Watch them like a hawk.
Call them out on a rules violation.
Watch them squirm for the rest of the round
Wait for them to start thread on GolfWRX
Enjoy meltdown
[/quote]Modern equivalent of Seve vs. Azinger not quite what I had in mind

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='nochrome' timestamp='1386099517' post='8243120']
Does anyone have examples of things they do to rattle their opponent that do not violate normal standards of sportsmanship?

[/quote]

I may be a candy-buttocks, but IMO in golf the concept of sportsmanship and doing things with the intention to rattle your opponent are in opposition to each other.

I want to win because I played better. I want to win despite liking my opponent. I don't want to win because I found some secret clever way to annoy him.

If I discover he is into gamesmanship or ill will of another kind, I'll switch and be irritating too -- but in this case I don't want to be clever about it, I want to be obvious. BTW, strictly enforcing the Rules is not gamesmanship IMO, it's fair game . . . bring it on. I also don't give a crap about conceded putts, do what you want, it doesn't bother me one iota, and I don't care if you care about my behavior in this regard.

[cwglum]

The whole thing with conceding putts is retarded, if it's good ... trust me, you'll know it. If you start trying to out think your opponents reactions to giving or not giving putts ... you're already focusing too much on your opponent instead of yourself. My style of gamesmanship in matchplay is to keep gutting the tee ball down the fairway, hit greens and make putts when I can. If I feel like guys are trying to 'game' me in certain situations ... other than watching their shots, I just absolutely ignore them in all facets of the round, never make eye contact and walk at my own pace.

[juststeve]

I don't engage in gamesmanship which I take to mean anything one does to prevent his opponent from playing his best. Its contrary to what I consider to be good sportsmanship.

Steve

[pcn_sim]

Plenty made of gamesmanship especially gimmes - good putters will just knock in the shorties & walk to next tee. Always have a look at putting early to check stroke/ confidence but not for gamesmanship. If looks bit shaky then give nothing - really will imply you expect them to miss everything!

Playing solid & driving well with honour important - make oppo feel like they need to try to force their game to keep in the match so get them out of their natural comfort zone. Bogeys rather than birdies normally result at amateur level. Concentrate using energy on positively effecting own golf overall.

Important to play at own natural pace rather than opponent's - must admit if I'm playing a real racer I tend to walk a little slower! Is that really gamesmanship?

[Colin L]

[quote name='pcn_sim' timestamp='1386108359' post='8243804']
must admit if I'm playing a real racer[b] I tend to walk a little slower[/b]! Is that really gamesmanship?
[/quote]

Age in my case.

[juststeve]

[quote name='pcn_sim' timestamp='1386108359' post='8243804']
Plenty made of gamesmanship especially gimmes - good putters will just knock in the shorties & walk to next tee. Always have a look at putting early to check stroke/ confidence but not for gamesmanship. If looks bit shaky then give nothing - really will imply you expect them to miss everything!

Playing solid & driving well with honour important - make oppo feel like they need to try to force their game to keep in the match so get them out of their natural comfort zone. Bogeys rather than birdies normally result at amateur level. Concentrate using energy on positively effecting own golf overall.

Important to play at own natural pace rather than opponent's - must admit if I'm playing a real racer I tend to walk a little slower! Is that really gamesmanship?
[/quote]

My answer would be that whether or not something is gamesmanship depends on why you are doing it. If you are doing something to throw an opponent off that is gamesmanship and in my opinion improper. If you are moving slow to calm yourself down and therefore to play better, that's entirely acceptable, whether it bothers your opponent or not.

Steve

[sui generis]

Vindog, in #3, makes a very important point. In match play, which is essentially 18 separate contests, a player's treatment of Rules infringements has a special format.

If you know, or even think, that your opponent has committed a Rules violation you must make a "claim" prior to beginning the next hole. It's often good enough to say to him, "Hey, I don't think that you're entitled to relief from that. I want to check with the pro shop when we're finished."

Unless your opponent is an experienced match player, he won't know what you're up to. Remember, generally, you must make your claim before teeing off on the next hole. If you wait a hole or two and stew over his play, you're out of luck. A "claim" made too late has little chance of standing.

Here's the Rule: [b][color=#0000cd]2-5[/color][color=#0000cd]. Doubt As To Procedure; Disputes And Claims[/color][/b]

[color=#000000][size=3][color=#0000cd]In match play, if a doubt or dispute arises between the players, a player may make a claim. If no duly authorized representative of the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Committee"][color=#0000cd]Committee[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] is available within a reasonable time, the players must continue the match without delay. The [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Committee"][color=#0000cd]Committee[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] may consider a claim only if it has been made in a timely manner and if the player making the claim has notified his [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Opponent"][color=#0000cd]opponent[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] at the time (i) that he is making a claim or wants a ruling and (ii) of the facts upon which the claim or ruling is to be based.[/color][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3][color=#0000cd]A claim is considered to have been made in a timely manner if, upon discovery of circumstances giving rise to a claim, the player makes his claim (i) before any player in the match plays from the next [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Teeing-Ground"][color=#0000cd]teeing ground[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd], or (ii) in the case of the last hole of the match, before all players in the match leave the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Putting-Green"][color=#0000cd]putting green[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd], or (iii) when the circumstances giving rise to the claim are discovered after all the players in the match have left the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Putting-Green"][color=#0000cd]putting green[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] of the final hole, before the result of the match has been officially announced.[/color][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3][color=#0000cd]A claim relating to a prior hole in the match may only be considered by the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Committee"][color=#0000cd]Committee[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] if it is based on facts previously unknown to the player making the claim and he had been given wrong information (Rules [/color][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-06/#6-2a"][color=#0000cd]6-2a[/color][/url][color=#0000cd] or [/color][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-09/#9"][color=#0000cd]9[/color][/url][color=#0000cd]) by an [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Opponent"][color=#0000cd]opponent[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd]. Such a claim must be made in a timely manner.[/color][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3][color=#0000cd]Once the result of the match has been officially announced, a claim may not be considered by the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Committee"][color=#0000cd]Committee[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd], unless it is satisfied that (i) the claim is based on facts which were previously unknown to the player making the claim at the time the result was officially announced, (ii) the player making the claim had been given wrong information by an [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Opponent"][color=#0000cd]opponent[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] and (iii) the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Opponent"][color=#0000cd]opponent[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] knew he was giving wrong information. There is no time limit on considering such a claim.[/color][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3][color=#0000cd][b]Note 1:[/b] A player may disregard a breach of the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Rule-Or-Rules"][color=#0000cd]Rules[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] by his [/color][i][color=#0000cd][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Opponent"]opponent[/url] [/color][/i][color=#0000cd]provided there is no agreement by the [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Side"][color=#0000cd]sides[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] to waive a [/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Rule-Or-Rules"][color=#0000cd]Rule[/color][/url][/i][color=#0000cd] (Rule [/color][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-01/#1-3"][color=#0000cd]1-3[/color][/url][color=#0000cd]).[/color][/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3][color=#0000cd][b]Note 2:[/b] In match play, if a player is doubtful of his rights or the correct procedure, he may [/color][/size][/color][color=#ff0000][size=3]not[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3][color=#0000cd] complete the play of the hole with two balls.[/color][/size][/color]

[Augster]

The big thing for match play and gamesmanship is to take the opponent out of his comfort zone. No talking if they like to talk, yak it up if they are usually quiet on the course. And always play slow. If they play fast, play slow. If they play slow, play slower. Never, ever be in a rush to hit a shot. Make them wait on you because, essentially, they can't play out of turn to hurry the pace because they KNOW I'll make them re-hit. They know it because I tell them on the first tee that I'll make them recall their shot if they play out of turn and hit a good one.


I never concede a putt over an absolute tap-in and I never concede a tap-in, that like above, got to the hole. If they leave it short and have an inch or two, I'll give it to them. If they putt it 2 inches past, they can mark and wait for me to putt. If they tap it in out of turn, they can pull it out of the cup and mark it. In a close match. If I'm 5 up with 6 to play, the gimme zone loosens up considerably. But for the start of a match most of this applies.

And I never say "good shot" unless they hole it from the fairway or something to win the hole with an eagle. I want my opponent to think that I think every shot of theirs is unimpressive. That I see shots better than that all the time. From myself.

IMO, the BEST part of pure match play is the gamesmanship aspect. If you aren't using some gamesmanship tactics when playing pure match play, you aren't enjoying the contest to its fullest.

[rogolf]

My advice is to avoid all "gamesmanship" efforts - they will only distract you from what you can control - your game.
Play well, play hard, respect your opponent and the game, and enjoy it.

[Mitchell]

Wasn't looking for advice or judgement on morality of anything anyone does, moreso specific examples of things players have either done themselves or seen others do in matchplay that would be of interest. I am not referencing poor sportsmanship, just noticed several things lately in matchplay and wanted to see what was normal behavior in certain areas or if what I witnessed was outside the norm, did not name those specifics so as not to cause bias.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='nochrome' timestamp='1386131362' post='8245629']
Wasn't looking for advice or judgement on morality of anything anyone does, moreso specific examples of things players have either done themselves or seen others do in matchplay that would be of interest. I am not referencing poor sportsmanship, just noticed several things lately in matchplay and wanted to see what was normal behavior in certain areas or if what I witnessed was outside the norm, did not name those specifics so as not to cause bias.
[/quote]

Your OP said in part, "Does anyone have examples of things they do to rattle their opponent that do not violate normal standards of sportsmanship? "

Sounded like you were "looking for advice or judgement on morality" to me. Aren't you suggesting there is a line somewhere that shouldn't be crossed, and isn't the determination of where that line is a moral judgment?

[Mitchell]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1386133402' post='8245787']
[quote name='nochrome' timestamp='1386131362' post='8245629']
Wasn't looking for advice or judgement on morality of anything anyone does, moreso specific examples of things players have either done themselves or seen others do in matchplay that would be of interest. I am not referencing poor sportsmanship, just noticed several things lately in matchplay and wanted to see what was normal behavior in certain areas or if what I witnessed was outside the norm, did not name those specifics so as not to cause bias.
[/quote]

Your OP said in part, "Does anyone have examples of things they do to rattle their opponent that do not violate normal standards of sportsmanship? "

Sounded like you were "looking for advice or judgement on morality" to me. Aren't you suggesting there is a line somewhere that shouldn't be crossed, and isn't the determination of where that line is a moral judgment?
[/quote]The point was that there is a general consensus that certain behaviors such as making noise while an opponent is making a stroke are improper, but are their other less overt things that players have been witness to that are commonly accepted or even common practice by players here?

[Colin L]

[color=#282828]The OP asked:[/color]
[color=#0000ff][i]Does anyone have examples of things they do to rattle their opponent that do not violate normal standards of sportsmanship? [/i][/color]

The answer has to be that there can be no such examples. If you make a deliberate attempt to rattle your opponent (not counting playing well!) you are violating the standards of sportsmanship.

The word [i]gamesmanship [/i]signifies a degree of dubious behaviour short of cheating and so, in answer to the OP, it cannot by definition sit comfortably in the context of [i]sportsmanship. [/i] Try to define [i]sportsmanship[/i] in such a way that it incorporates dubious behaviour, and you'll see what I mean.

[xxjonesyxx]

At the end of the day do you want a reputation at your club for being 'that guy' that is unpleasant to play against in matchplay? can soon mean its hard to get games at the club etc.
Play your very best, do your up most to win within the rules and within the spirit of the game.

PS I have no issues with making people play again if they go out of turn or making your opponent putt out.

[Mitchell]

Guess no one here has seen any examples in all their years of watching Ryder Cups, President's Cup, WGC matchplay, etc. ? Did not say was attempting to use info to be "that guy", would ever violate rules, etc., merely was attempting to spur some productive discourse, whether forum agreed or not with some examples provided by membership, but based on direction thread is going, regret the attempt and I am done here.

[Riuzzi]

Closed at the request of the OP.