Speeding up the arm swing

[CSagan]

Ok. I'm making this thread because I defeated my slow arms once...and they came back and it took me a dang year to defeat them again and I want to keep em whooped so I can work on other things.

 

 

There are some flaws there that need attention but for now just gonna work on keeping my arms whipping through fast. I'm using a feel Dan gave me of hitting the ball feeling like my back stays towards the target on the downswing and I whip my arms through fast. The whip part I tossed in just due to it working in my head. You can see my hips still go nuts before I start down with the arms even though I feel like I'm doing arms first.

 

Here's some stuff I've found on it.

 

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-01/zach-johnson-downswing-drills

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2013-06/zach-johnson-steal-my-feel

 

 

I'll do this for a few weeks then maybe after new years I'll add back in some extension on the backswing (again) and then possibly steepen shoulder plane (again).

[MonteScheinblum]

Try and get the right hip and knee lower.

[CSagan]

That'll save some goats eh? Will throw it on the pile.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='CSagan' timestamp='1387258423' post='8311361']
That'll save some goats eh? Will throw it on the pile.
[/quote]

It will just create some more space for your arms to speed up.

[pfchang]

I think the ultimate true reason why that speeds up the arms is because the lower center aka tailbone is moved forward while the head is kept back. When the tailbone gets forward, the left hip is released/unbunched, which allows the lumbar spine/lower spine to rotate. So all parts above it can also rotate.

If we don't release the tailbone and left hip, all things above it can't rotate to their potential speed.

Am I correct or am I missing something?

[XJared]

This should be a good topic. Would like to hear ideas about speeding up the arms without doing all the bad things like dragging/pulling the handle, etc...

[AlexCzervic]

Can anybody that knows Mike Bender confirm that he knows much more about mechanics than he is demonstrating in the video? What about guys that spin the massive rotor? What about guys with good rotational flexibility? What about guys who know how to make a BS?

AC

[juststeve]

The keys to fast arms are relaxed arms and room for them to swing. How they are powered is secondary.

Steve

[starsail85]

move your arms correctly. think karate chop with the left hand and arm, this causes lag without the shaft leaving the line of the left arm. This also makes it lighter, which is faster

its a constant battle if you are not using your arms properly, they should come back the way they went up and way from the body in the backswing, no "swing"

[thekru]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1387296347' post='8312665']
Can anybody that knows Mike Bender confirm that he knows much more about mechanics than he is demonstrating in the video? What about guys that spin the massive rotor? What about guys with good rotational flexibility? What about guys who know how to make a BS?

AC
[/quote]
Yes he knows a lot more. It was a three minute video talking about arm swing and syncing up the arm swing the body. Just email him if you want his resume. Kind of jumping all over the guy aren't you?

[bph7]

[quote name='thekru' timestamp='1387300074' post='8313033']
[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1387296347' post='8312665']
Can anybody that knows Mike Bender confirm that he knows much more about mechanics than he is demonstrating in the video? What about guys that spin the massive rotor? What about guys with good rotational flexibility? What about guys who know how to make a BS?

AC
[/quote]
Yes he knows a lot more. It was a three minute video talking about arm swing and syncing up the arm swing the body. Just email him if you want his resume. [b] Kind of jumping all over the guy aren't you?[/b]
[/quote]

No, his question seemed pretty legitimate question me, actually. If all I saw was that video in a vacuum, and did not know other stuff about Bender, I would have had the same questions. I do know he is a great teacher myself, but if you hadn't heard of him, I could see there being questions like this.

[thekru]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1387300512' post='8313071']
[quote name='thekru' timestamp='1387300074' post='8313033']
[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1387296347' post='8312665']
Can anybody that knows Mike Bender confirm that he knows much more about mechanics than he is demonstrating in the video? What about guys that spin the massive rotor? What about guys with good rotational flexibility? What about guys who know how to make a BS?

AC
[/quote]
Yes he knows a lot more. It was a three minute video talking about arm swing and syncing up the arm swing the body. Just email him if you want his resume. [b] Kind of jumping all over the guy aren't you?[/b]
[/quote]

No, his question seemed pretty legitimate question me, actually. If all I saw was that video in a vacuum, and did not know other stuff about Bender, I would have had the same questions. I do know he is a great teacher myself, but if you hadn't heard of him, I could see there being questions like this.
[/quote]

Fair enough. But AC has internet access obviously and could have just went to his website and did a little research.

[juststeve]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1387299296' post='8312965']
move your arms correctly. think karate chop with the left hand and arm, this causes lag without the shaft leaving the line of the left arm. This also makes it lighter, which is faster

its a constant battle if you are not using your arms properly, they should come back the way they went up and way from the body in the backswing, no "swing"
[/quote]

Maybe I'm not picturing what you mean by karate chop with the left hand correctly, but the picture I have in my mind is akin to pulling the handle, the butt of my left hand leading.

As to causing lag, all of the lag I have ever needed is present at the top of the back swing. If I accelerate my arms freely in the forward swing it will be retained to the proper degree. I want to be lagging the sweet spot into the ball,not the butt of the left hand.

Steve

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1387301632' post='8313141']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1387299296' post='8312965']
move your arms correctly. think karate chop with the left hand and arm, this causes lag without the shaft leaving the line of the left arm. This also makes it lighter, which is faster

its a constant battle if you are not using your arms properly, they should come back the way they went up and way from the body in the backswing, no "swing"
[/quote]

Maybe I'm not picturing what you mean by karate chop with the left hand correctly, but the picture I have in my mind is akin to pulling the handle, the butt of my left hand leading.

As to causing lag, all of the lag I have ever needed is present at the top of the back swing. If I accelerate my arms freely in the forward swing it will be retained to the proper degree. I want to be lagging the sweet spot into the ball,not the butt of the left hand.

Steve
[/quote]

Word

[starsail85]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1387301821' post='8313163']
[quote name='juststeve' timestamp='1387301632' post='8313141']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1387299296' post='8312965']
move your arms correctly. think karate chop with the left hand and arm, this causes lag without the shaft leaving the line of the left arm. This also makes it lighter, which is faster

its a constant battle if you are not using your arms properly, they should come back the way they went up and way from the body in the backswing, no "swing"
[/quote]

Maybe I'm not picturing what you mean by karate chop with the left hand correctly, but the picture I have in my mind is akin to pulling the handle, the butt of my left hand leading.

As to causing lag, all of the lag I have ever needed is present at the top of the back swing. If I accelerate my arms freely in the forward swing it will be retained to the proper degree. I want to be lagging the sweet spot into the ball,not the butt of the left hand.

Steve
[/quote]

Word
[/quote]

I agree with what your saying

The movement I am describing is what brings the arms back to the body. pulling the handle doesnt work on this angle, pulling the handle narrows the downswing and stops the arms following the body turn.

The movement with the left arm is what causes the right arm to straighten. back down at the angle that the left arm lifted in the backswing

I think what I termed lag is not really what I mean, given lags voodoo status round here. The action Im trying to describe is what puts the left thumb pressure on the grip, the change of direction that doesnt change the angle of the clubface. I would say that is what gives clubface stability

my interpretation of pulling the handle can cause the shaf to shallow or steepen depending on the origin of the movement( position of backswing dependant on wether arms are swung behind or lifted too upright)

Feel free to tell me Im talking no sense!!!

[CSagan]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1387257390' post='8311313']
Try and get the right hip and knee lower.
[/quote]

So I've been doing the spiral staircase drill and I think it helped those things out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-awjWc5lVg

Was able to hit the ball solid with just turning my body back and through instead of trying to speed my arms through. Tinker away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8dOiodukF8

[Jim Waldron]

You can think of your arms as independent entities (which is how 99.9% of amateurs picture them, due to ASI) or you can think of them as the sides of your Triangle. So if the issue is arms lagging too much behind the lower body, ie hips - the solution is NOT to "do anything" with the arms indedpendently to "speed them up", the solution is to move the base of the Triangle, the shoulder girdle, earlier and faster. When the base is un-coiling/tilting faster, so are the sides, ie the arms.

Tilt Switch is also part of this. If too slow or too late, your arms will lag too much. So switch faster and earlier.

There is a tiny independent dropping of the arms back into the body during Transition - caused by un-coiling and tilt switch momentum, that can be restricted due to too much tension in the arms, upper arms especially. Softer arms will allow that tiny bit of gravity drop to help return the arms to the body.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1389462760' post='8441695']
You can think of your arms as independent entities (which is how 99.9% of amateurs picture them, due to ASI) or you can think of them as the sides of your Triangle. So if the issue is arms lagging too much behind the lower body, ie hips - the solution is NOT to "do anything" with the arms indedpendently to "speed them up", the solution is to move the base of the Triangle, the shoulder girdle, earlier and faster. When the base is un-coiling/tilting faster, so are the sides, ie the arms.

Tilt Switch is also part of this. If too slow or too late, your arms will lag too much. So switch faster and earlier.

There is a tiny independent dropping of the arms back into the body during Transition - caused by un-coiling and tilt switch momentum, that can be restricted due to too much tension in the arms, upper arms especially. Softer arms will allow that tiny bit of gravity drop to help return the arms to the body.
[/quote]

Listen well.

[Donny Ross]

Jim Waldron needs his own show.

[GaryRead]

[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1389462760' post='8441695']
You can think of your arms as independent entities (which is how 99.9% of amateurs picture them, due to ASI) or you can think of them as the sides of your Triangle. So if the issue is arms lagging too much behind the lower body, ie hips - the solution is NOT to "do anything" with the arms indedpendently to "speed them up", the solution is to move the base of the Triangle, the shoulder girdle, earlier and faster. When the base is un-coiling/tilting faster, so are the sides, ie the arms.

Tilt Switch is also part of this. If too slow or too late, your arms will lag too much. So switch faster and earlier.

There is a tiny independent dropping of the arms back into the body during Transition - caused by un-coiling and tilt switch momentum, that can be restricted due to too much tension in the arms, upper arms especially. Softer arms will allow that tiny bit of gravity drop to help return the arms to the body.
[/quote]

Hi Jim,

Apologies if you have detailed this before but can you describe titlt switch?

If I was to guess it sounds like the gradual removal of forward flexion from set up to a blend of left side lateral bend / forward flexion at the top of the BS (first tilt of the triangle) then going to right side lateral bend just after transition (tilt switch) I.e undoing the the tilt generated in the backswing to get into the secondary axis tilt required for a good strike.

[Dan Drake]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1387257390' post='8311313']
Try and get the right hip and knee lower.
[/quote]

OOOOOHHHHH. Can you expand on this just a hair more? This may just be "the" key.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='GaryRead' timestamp='1389473519' post='8442465']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1389462760' post='8441695']
You can think of your arms as independent entities (which is how 99.9% of amateurs picture them, due to ASI) or you can think of them as the sides of your Triangle. So if the issue is arms lagging too much behind the lower body, ie hips - the solution is NOT to "do anything" with the arms indedpendently to "speed them up", the solution is to move the base of the Triangle, the shoulder girdle, earlier and faster. When the base is un-coiling/tilting faster, so are the sides, ie the arms.

Tilt Switch is also part of this. If too slow or too late, your arms will lag too much. So switch faster and earlier.

There is a tiny independent dropping of the arms back into the body during Transition - caused by un-coiling and tilt switch momentum, that can be restricted due to too much tension in the arms, upper arms especially. Softer arms will allow that tiny bit of gravity drop to help return the arms to the body.
[/quote]

Hi Jim,

Apologies if you have detailed this before but can you describe titlt switch?

If I was to guess it sounds like the gradual removal of forward flexion from set up to a blend of left side lateral bend / forward flexion at the top of the BS (first tilt of the triangle) then going to right side lateral bend just after transition (tilt switch) I.e undoing the the tilt generated in the backswing to get into the secondary axis tilt required for a good strike.
[/quote][quote name='GaryRead' timestamp='1389473519' post='8442465']
[quote name='Jim Waldron' timestamp='1389462760' post='8441695']
You can think of your arms as independent entities (which is how 99.9% of amateurs picture them, due to ASI) or you can think of them as the sides of your Triangle. So if the issue is arms lagging too much behind the lower body, ie hips - the solution is NOT to "do anything" with the arms indedpendently to "speed them up", the solution is to move the base of the Triangle, the shoulder girdle, earlier and faster. When the base is un-coiling/tilting faster, so are the sides, ie the arms.

Tilt Switch is also part of this. If too slow or too late, your arms will lag too much. So switch faster and earlier.

There is a tiny independent dropping of the arms back into the body during Transition - caused by un-coiling and tilt switch momentum, that can be restricted due to too much tension in the arms, upper arms especially. Softer arms will allow that tiny bit of gravity drop to help return the arms to the body.
[/quote]

Hi Jim,

Apologies if you have detailed this before but can you describe titlt switch?

If I was to guess it sounds like the gradual removal of forward flexion from set up to a blend of left side lateral bend / forward flexion at the top of the BS (first tilt of the triangle) then going to right side lateral bend just after transition (tilt switch) I.e undoing the the tilt generated in the backswing to get into the secondary axis tilt required for a good strike.
[/quote]

You described it perfectly!

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='Donny Ross' timestamp='1389465362' post='8441887']
Jim Waldron needs his own show.
[/quote]

If the Golf Channel ever gives me my own show, my mantra will be "Let's NOT do this!" LOL...the ultimate Zen golf instruction show.

[CSagan]

Thx for the input Jim!