iacas

I don't know what you saw or the context, but if you watch TPI videos, or Dr. Kwon videos, etc.… I don't think you'd describe what they see day in and day out from the game's best players as "all over the place." Maybe you were looking at something a little different than those kinematic sequences… but as with most things in golf, the game's best all tend to be within a small window or range in terms of when and how much they do things.

I know a bunch of pitching instructors who would argue you on that stuff (and be right about it). And I'm sure @MonteScheinblum would tell you the same. They have to teach bowlers when to squeeze and relax their fingers in the bowling ball. I've known a few bowling instructors who will talk about that stuff — which direction you squeeze, when and how hard you squeeze or apply pressure, etc.

I took what he wrote as basically saying: "The email says you should use your wrists, and the app wants zero wrist movement."

I don't see it that way. I see his first post as saying: Don't make it too complicated. Learn to turn and use your arms properly. Do those things fast hitting the ground. Tighten up where you hit the ground, then introduce a ball. Do things fast right now. The videos had him swinging at 71 and 66 MPH. I have a few 12-year-old girls who swing faster than that. Both lessons were pretty technical, with the guy on all sorts of technology, at a stage when almost every swing is slightly different. Learning basic kinematic sequencing things with speed is in many ways the opposite of that. Beyond that, and with the chart, I took what he said to be more general, and not necessarily specifically about the OP. That all said, I've only skimmed the topic, so if either of us missed something it's likely me. 🙂

@PedronNiall, he's not talking about practicing… he's talking about how you swing when you're first learning. Nicklaus said it like "swing fast, then learn to hit it straight." Train the speed first… then reign in the control. My "Starter" lessons, I have a pre-planned set of three. The third is chipping/putting. The first two are full swings. I teach grip, setup, and pivot (with "no arms") in the first lesson… and even in this I encourage golfers to rotate hard. Turn fast. Hit the ground and hit the ball hard. Many of the "Starters" are adults. I see one of my main jobs as getting them to swing at more than 40 MPH… because if their first swings are at 40 MPH, in my experience, the odds that they're ever going to be good at golf are pretty low. (If they're content to just play golf with their husband and be outside or whatever, then no judgment here — they just won't break 100, ever, likely). I had a girl "guiding" the club around the other day. She's in high school, but she's small. 7I swing speed was 60. I challenged her to get to 75. She didn't get there, but she hit 74… and the balls were higher, farther… and straighter. More accurate. Because biomechanics, geometry, etc. work better when you MOVE. (To a certain point.)

The only way to hit the inside of the ball is with an open face. Path is irrelevant. Just geometry. In the AMG video, they demonstrate that the arms feel like they go to the right, and they go to the right relative to a static body/chest/torso, but the pivot carries it around so the path is pretty neutral. They're not teaching a "swing to right field" swing. They're teaching a good swing that's pretty neutral. Yeah. Another way of saying it from my perspective: I'm not trying to "be" right, I'm trying to get it right. And when someone says 2+2=5, I'm gonna point out that it's 4 and why. It's not impolite. It's not hostile (not on this end at least). It's just a discussion. Everyone gets to have their own opinions, but not their own facts.

It is. I'm still waiting for a link to the video (I suspect I'll be waiting a long time) where they said something dramatically different. That's not what anyone is talking about when they say "swing to right field." C'mon. Why are you talking about the backswing? It was a typo. He mean to say they swing to the left (as a righty). Up to 58. Congrats, AJ. 🙄

Okay, then… I generally see outliers as just that: outliers. I don't look at Matt Wolff and think "we should re-think the truth about the efficient windows through which we should teach players to move the clubhead through space." That's not an outlier. Depending on the club, 6" of pelvis sway would be almost 50th percentile. Uhhhh, okay.

Imagine a triangle with these three points: Left shoulder (A) Right shoulder (B) Middle of the hands. (C) AC (blue) is going to be longer than BC (green) because B bridges the gap of a bent right elbow. The angle CAB (blue/magenta) is basically the adduction angle, or a close approximation for it, and you can rotate the triangle around the magenta axis to raise and lower point C. Rotate C upward, the right elbow is farther off the ribs. Rotate it downward, closer to the ribs. In most good swings the right elbow and the adduction angle narrow slightly in transition, before widening again. We (me, AMG, hundreds of others) have these measurements in 3D. This isn't guessing or going by feels. (3:55) Rare that I got to play today. Only one guy ahead of us, we played casually in 2:40. But, yeah, I look occasionally online when I'm playing golf. Message a few people, have a few chuckles. So long as I can do it without taking myself away from the actual in-real-life people I'm with… Long-time student of mine recorded that for me of course. That reminds me, here's a not-long-time student, a relatively new student, nearly 50. Was 17.8° open with the pelvis at impact, and 20 minutes later, was just over 51° open. Arms weren't working properly, so he had to stall to give his hands time to get down to the ball in the blue image (and right side bend to do it, too). Chest was open 14.something and then got to 37.something (slightly over-did the pelvis/chest rotation stuff).

Can't say I see that very often. I'm sure there are some out there may struggle with that, but I typically see people able to generate more speed from better mechanics and sequencing.

Do you think the lead shoulder is retracted at impact in the game's best players?

The Stack, mostly because rather than just following a protocol that everyone does, the app guides you through a protocol that is fairly customized/tailored to you. The guys behind it are smart, and there are different in-season, out-of-season, etc. protocols as well.

Unlike some I can produce a video. And unlike a still from a moment in a video, I have two hands on the club. IMG_4424.mov

Nah, bud. On the bright side (for both of us), you won't have to worry about me replying to your stuff much more in the future. Cheers.

No, you've misread. Here's an even shorter response to you by Ray saying a part of what I've said: I can do it too. So, show us. Keep your trail elbow from doubling the amount of flexion it has, too, unlike the Sportsbox avatar, and just lower the trail elbow downward. I disagree they failed to demonstrate that function. Shaun doesn't keep his right elbow flexed 90° at all points in the video. Maybe once demonstrating ONLY the lowering-to-the-ribs part, but not at every point, and certainly not in every video.

… without an answer to the questions, or a video of you demonstrating how dropping the right elbow increases adduction as you claimed. Noted.

The presentation and wording in your post with the Sportsbox avatars is not executed well, but you left that part out of your replies. 😄 Here's the thing… again, they can't say everything about everything in every video. They'd be 45 minutes long and tedious as all get out. We as an audience are capable of using our brains to put together the whole piece, are we not?

They've done it a hundred* times. Every video doesn't need the fullest explanation of everything they talk about. * Might be a slight exaggeration, but not much. I mean, you quote me as saying "as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach."

I mean, it narrows it down, though. 😄 It's not your putting or short game! 😄 Not stumping for GIR. Just that it's not a terrible stat. It has a good correlation and causation to scoring.

Oh boy. A lot (without being much at all) to catch up on here. This video doesn't encourage you to swing to the right (not more so than to deliver a relatively neutral path), so I'm not sure what you're saying there. There are dozens and dozens of things technology has proven incorrect from what people used to think. Heck, well known instructors even got the most basic things down — like the ball flight laws or that you didn't "compress the ball against the ground" were wrong for decades. Why are so many people intent on trying to prove that some old dead guy was actually right about something instead of just learning what we can learn as newer and newer tech is available? The old guys weren't completely wrong… but they weren't right about everything, either. Bingo. No they (most) don't (run out of range of motion). Most stall because they have to stall to hit the golf ball. Because their body can't keep going given how far behind the pivot their arms are, or whatever. If most golfers who do this just kept turning, they'd literally miss the ground and the golf ball. Not really. This line of thinking is way too common, and honestly, it down-plays the work they put into what they do and have done. Yep. No. Please share the link. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that from them. If they did, I feel like the context is missing (and important) here. Hard disagree there. Please demonstrate that. Let's see a video. Because I don't think it does, particularly if the elbow is widening as it drops down as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach. Let's just ignore that the left avatar has his right elbow is bent like twice as much as the right avatar. 😛

GIR isn't a terrible stat. It's probably the best of golf's traditional stats.

I'm heading out to watch some of my players in a tournament so apologies for the brevity, but that isn't quite right there. I think you'd be surprised how much of your golf DNA comes out as a lefty. 🙂 Good luck. I'll check back in later with more if it's not already beaten to death. P.S. Buy some AlmostGolf balls.

There are five areas of the course. There are slightly different rules for each. You're only to advance the ball with a stroke, and a stroke has the intent of being a stroke. A practice swing is not a stroke. Almost fundamental to the game.

Set up with your heels 2.5” from a wall in golf shoes and barely or don’t let your butt touch the wall.

Yes. Improving that will have several other good effects, probably including the handle being a bit lower.