iacas

Okay then. 👍🏼

We know. That doesn't change anything I've said.

I'm not even necessarily saying they want to do it. Just that the reality is that if both golfers got their peak verticals 0.1 seconds before impact, the club would be at VERY different positions. The long drive guy's club would be a LOT farther from the ball than the slow swinging woman. It's like judging rate of closure. You could have a slow swinger rolling the crap out of the face versus a long driver that has a slow rate of closure, and if you measure it in °/s the slow-swinging face-rolling golfer is often significantly lower than the fast-swinging stable face player (not literally stable, just slower ROC). They don't — you're going to find a lot more LPGA Tour players who are below optimal than a PGA Tour players. The gap is closing, but there's still a gap. Just not as much money in the women's game, which affects the instruction they can get, and honestly the amount of time and effort they have to put in to get to the Tour and keep their cards. Even if you limit it to the PGA Tour, slower swingers peak a bit later. Some are leaving a little speed on the table, but some, per what I'm saying, have to peak later to actually synchronize what they're doing. You can see it in other things, too. Hand speed (grip speed on GEARS) often peaks a bit later if you're looking at it relative to where the shaft is. Get a large enough sample size (some players have a little float load, some are pretty wide throughout) and you'll see some correlation there.

I think it might be something as small as you might literally be standing an inch or two closer to the ball than before.

Which is why, again, the context is important. If you're talking about the club "doing the work" to shallow the club (it's a feel that can work for people), then that's not related to GRF. Context matters. No, it's not sooner or with more force than I think. 🤣

Well… This topic is about GRF, and I've not seen anyone saying "let the club do the work" in that context. For getting the ball in the air, for some shallowing maybe, etc. But the context of this topic is GRF, when and how and in what direction you push or unweight or whatever. If someone came into this topic and said "what about all of the instructors who say to use the bounce?" I'd like to think everyone here would say "uhhh, that's not the topic." The club can't "do the work" to move your body. The club's ability to create GRF is very, very small. So, within this context, I've not seen anyone saying that, or saying to do something at P6.

I haven't seen anyone here (or anywhere, really, recently) saying that you don't do anything until P6. Even the player who peaks at P6 (which is not as late as Greg makes it sound — I realize now I said Dave earlier, oops) is beginning to push much earlier than P6. That's just the peak. Hard disagree there. If you don't do it, you need to learn to do it. Sure, for things like getting the ball in the air and stuff. You're mixing up a lot of things, it seems like. Again, context is gonna be important on stuff like that. To try to stay on topic… nobody here is saying don't begin pushing until P6.

Okay, but it really didn't speak to what I said, so I think you can see why I sought to clarify farther given that you quoted me and immediately said something. Steve's also not the only GRF expert. Ha, well, I'd have to hear the context of that kind of comment… We could each give a thousand examples of that not being the case. The jury long ago returned a verdict on that one. Poorer players have to rush because they're late. Get back early, get forward early, and you're in the best position to push the hardest for the longest amount of time.

That's not really what I said. Also, I disagree - if the slow swinger peaks her verticals at P4.3, the energy will have gotten out to the club and then out OF the club by the time she eventually gets down to the ball. If her sole intent was to do it earlier, she could do it too early, and it'd be a far worse swing than she has now. Imagine someone swinging a driver at 65 MPH and someone swinging it at 130. The last 0.1 seconds of their downswings are going to cover a vastly different distance. So when we judge how "early" something is solely by the Ps, we're missing the actual literal time from impact. My point was only that the slow woman is not as different as calling it P4.3 vs. P6 makes it appear. It's a feel. You can feel like your hands are moving faster through impact even though we know they all slow down before impact as, if they didn't, the clubhead would pass like 18" over the golf ball. Feel ain't real. Nothing more to it than that.

Same guy as the one who talks to the pitcher after six innings of a no-hitter. 😛

Is the video older swings from before the injury, and the image a recent swing? Could you post some recent swings from FO and DL with a mid-iron (6, maybe 7) in slow-motion? Overall, yes, you're going to want to get the lead leg back to strength and speed. It's an explosive move. Some players are more rotational, some more vertical, but you need a good lead leg to do either, generally (but especially the latter). Sorry to hear about your injury. I'll check back later if you can get the videos, and/or clarify the above. P.S. There's some other stuff going on as you'll see in the image not only the knees flexed but your weight still back with a lot of right side tilt. Straighten that left leg more and you might miss the golf ball, for example, so the answer isn't going to be "just use your left leg more."

Be careful there. Those aren't the same camera angles. Moving that camera a few inches left or right in the top view is going to change where that line seems to point quite a bit.

I disagree with Monte on the “active” part. I have to get a number of people to actively do things. The ground is just a platform, so you have to push to get that reaction. If you’re forward properly that’s the time to “jump” with the lead leg. That’s an active thing. One of the things Dave never seems to look at is… I bet the time to impact isn’t as different as “pre-P5” in the long driver and “P6” in the shorter hitter looks. The long driver is getting to impact in like 0.1 servings from there… and the short hitter might in almost the same time. If the short hitter did it at P4.3 she’d have peaked the speed out to the club ~P6 most likely!

Literally have never seen that from anyone. I doubt @MonteScheinblum has either.

Yeah, that's not true. Up to $1k. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/amateur-status/amateur-status-modernization/rule-3.html

I've put a pool noodle over the top (horizontal) section, too. On a 4x4 (which is like 3.5"), that's often a little too far away. (I don't glue the PVC in these things. I just shove 'em together, so adding a noodle was easy.)

His shots even when he's not in the fourth round with a comfortable lead look almost the same. One of his more outlier rounds? The Olympics, when he trailed by a decent margin but came from behind to win gold.

I don’t get that perception (but I’m in the USA). It’s just that they’re more common here and they’re almost always on the course, so they come up a lot.

Yeah, unfortunately. I mean, it's not really one of the core things they generally have to do, though I do prefer when they say "I don't know, let's find out together" rather than giving an answer they think might be right (but often isn't).

A ball traveling 300 yards in the air and curving 15 yards is pretty straight, my man. There's also wind, the way a fairway doglegs… etc. https://www.thefriedegg.com/articles/scottie-scheffler-stats-2025-open-championship That's pretty straight.

No. 16 is about ACCs. I bolded and made the part red that said the ACC had to be on the course.

Ah, I may have tricked you. 🙂 16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions) (2) Relief Allowed Anywhere on Course Except When Ball Is in Penalty Area. Relief from interference by an abnormal course condition is allowed under Rule 16.1 only when both: The abnormal course condition is on the course (not out of bounds), and The ball is anywhere on the course, except in a penalty area (where the player’s only relief is under Rule 17). Seems pretty clear to me? Does that help you clear up your feelings about it? P.S. It's odd that they drew the line ON the cart path, and not on the EDGE of the cart path.

That's what I'm trying to get to: why is it a grey line for you? The player's ball is in bounds. He's standing OB but on a cart path. Yes?

So, @Petethreeput, what's your issue with the rules here?

Can you explain why you've said that? I read "the ball is in play" as the ball is in bounds. So, I know I have my answer, but I'm curious as to why you've answered as you have @Hawkeye77.